Hope or Denial and next steps

Ginger, who was diagnosed on Nov. 15, 2007, has TCC and has been sick with infections for about a year. She has been receiving chemo every three weeks since Nov.. Once her blood counts were low but she rebounded. This past week she threw up a lot so they decided to forego the chemo and give her fluids and stuff for her kidneys. Basically, they told me though her kidney function is normal it is in the "high range" of normal and she is starting to go downhill.

Well that is not a good enough answer for me and I want to know what else to do. I have emailed my vet who has holistic vets in her practice, and also another holistic vet in the area. Even though the vet school hospital insists that surgery is not and never was an option,I keep feeling like if they would chop it out or blast it with lasers, we would have a better chance. I also feel like a better diet would help and for as much research as my husband and I have done and as many questions as we have asked, we're getting nowhere but frustrated. We can't do it alone!

I keep seeing "some dogs live a week with treatment, some dogs live a year without treatment, it's an agressive cancer and there is no hope," blah blah blah. I want better answers than this. You all have been quite an inspiration and a help and if anybody could point me in a better direction, I'd appreciate it. I love my girl with all my heart and want only the best for her. I will not stop at anything, I'll even go into debt for her until it gets to the point where we are homeless and none of us can survive that way. ;-) Thanks for your hope and I don't believe I'm in denial--I know there's more that can be done I just can't seem to find the right answers.

Hi there! My name is Marty and my dog, Annie, also has TCC.  I am sorry to hear about your Ginger and I know you are very worried and feel helpless. I can tell this from your letter, but I know it because all of us here on this board feel the same way.  

There are many many people who have changed their dog's diet and have had success with it.  They also have used supplements that they feel have been helpful as well.  Go to the main section of Bladder Cancer (not the pet one) and find the thread that has over 600 postings.  It is all about dogs with TCC.  There will be even more information there for you.  One person in particular, Ryle's Mom, Shele, had great success with diet for her baby and has very generously shared all that she did for him.  I think her postings, along with the others you will find there, will give you the diet pointers you are looking for.

Remember, you want above all what is best for Ginger.  It is unlikely that that includes surgery.  I saw an animated clip just this past week here on this website that showed bladder cancers.  TCC is a cancer of the transitional cells of the wall of the bladder.  The bladder (in simple terms) is like a balloon, you can never get clean margins without destroying the bladder and without clean margins..... I think you would be taking away valuable quality time that you should spend enjoying Ginger.

I am concerned that you refer to her kidneys, however.  Kidney disease is a different matter.  Is the tumor blocking both of her kidneys? How old is she?

I have to run out right now, but look at that thread I mentioned.  You will always have support here from the many wonderful people on this board.

Good luck to you.

Marty 

 

 

I don't have any answers for you, just wanted to send you ((HUGS))  Our pets are so special and we would go to the ends of the earth to make them better.  I hope you find the answers you are looking for!!

Muffie's mom

Don't lose hope even though when you can't see light in the tunnel. 

It is your decision to go for aggressive treatment or allowing him enjoying his life.  If you opt for aggressive treatment, you need to consider his kidney condition.  Radiation and Chemo contain high toxicity which require good condition kidney to flush out the toxicin as fast as it can after the treatment.   The longer the body contian toxicin, the more it does harm and damage to organs that are in execellent condition.  As a result, the dog may kill by heart or internal organ failure before he/she being killed by cancer.

My dog has unknown primary carcinoma since 3/2005 and I am able to buy few more years with him until now.   Due to his condition is unknown primary (NSF), I opt out for radiation or chemo after surgicial removed the tumor.  In return, I gave him a research drug for preventive until 9 months later reports indicated the cancer had maglinant to the lung.  Currently, his left side of his body from neck all the way to his bottom is fully of cancer.  His internal organs are the same also.  He is currently under palliative and supportive treatment, just like human living at hospice.   My goal is to buy more time with him.

Working at cancer research field years, my objective is more on other facts than lower or higher grade of cancer.  Is the cancer unknown-primary or known-primary?  What is the % of cure? The patient history and disease site actually are major fact on selecting treatment.  Most people have no idea that NCI and NIH do alternative medicine studies also, like EGRF (aka: green tea). 

Perry has his blog regarding his condition http://myperry.blogspot.com/ so friends can check into it instead of asking me.  Everytime when people ask, my tears cannot held back.  So, coworkers, friends, and family know his condition via his blog. 

So, think of what is best for yourself and him.  Please not to panic as this is the time you need to make the best judgement for him and your family.

Warm Regards  

Well here is an update. We are still waiting on the results of the super-duper urine culture they did last week. She has been throwing up a couple of times even though her appetite is still good. She is also drinking a lot of water, maybe because she's dehydrated from puking or maybe because of her kidneys.

 But they said her kidneys are working nromally, it's not kidney disease (at least they haven't told me that yet) but that the urinary tract infection that keeps recurring with the cancer has crept up into her kidneys. She's been fighting a UTI for over a year now, or multiple infections, whihc is how she got the diagnosis in the first place.

The problem is that it's e-coli causing the infection and this strain is resistant to antibiotics. They are waiting for the final results of the culture and think there is one injectable drug that "might" work to kill the infection, but even if it does, it will not prevent it from coming back.

 And that is why my heart is breaking tonight. I am absolutely doing the best that I can to treat her and give her a long, healthy, happy life. I'm almost inclined to treat it even more agressively, to tell them to risk surgery and do more, heavy chemo like they do on people, because if she's going to die anyway, why not take the risk?

But I don't want to make her suffer, I don't have the heart, I just want to make her better. I fear we are about to lose this battle and I am fighting so hard on her behalf that it is just about killing me and my husband to contemplate what comes next.

 We ordered some herbs from Robert McDowell in Australia (anybody have good results with these?). And I have done a lot of research onthis site, so thank you to the person who referred me to the TCC messages. That is where I found a lot of the info I needed when I suspected she might have cancer. Thanks for your support and inspiration. I hope your own pain eases soon, and you and your furbabies are in my thoughts.

I love my baby and want the best for her. I cannot imagine my life without her by my side 24/7 and can't even imagine what I might even WANT to come after. For me there is no next chapter written yet. All I've done all week is cried myself to sleep and kept looking for more information, anything that might help us to help her get well. So she can live until she is old and wise an has had a fulfilling life.

She's only 10 now, too young for a boxer/pit mix to die. ... Still not sure if it's hope or denial or what, but I still believe she has a few happy healthy quality years left in her. Please tell me the truth. Am I kidding myself? Or is it a real possibility? Mother's intuition.

 

On 2/21/2008 athena2552 wrote:

Well here is an update. We are still waiting on the results of the super-duper urine culture they did last week. She has been throwing up a couple of times even though her appetite is still good. She is also drinking a lot of water, maybe because she's dehydrated from puking or maybe because of her kidneys.

 But they said her kidneys are working nromally, it's not kidney disease (at least they haven't told me that yet) but that the urinary tract infection that keeps recurring with the cancer has crept up into her kidneys. She's been fighting a UTI for over a year now, or multiple infections, whihc is how she got the diagnosis in the first place.

The problem is that it's e-coli causing the infection and this strain is resistant to antibiotics. They are waiting for the final results of the culture and think there is one injectable drug that "might" work to kill the infection, but even if it does, it will not prevent it from coming back.

 And that is why my heart is breaking tonight. I am absolutely doing the best that I can to treat her and give her a long, healthy, happy life. I'm almost inclined to treat it even more agressively, to tell them to risk surgery and do more, heavy chemo like they do on people, because if she's going to die anyway, why not take the risk?

But I don't want to make her suffer, I don't have the heart, I just want to make her better. I fear we are about to lose this battle and I am fighting so hard on her behalf that it is just about killing me and my husband to contemplate what comes next.

 We ordered some herbs from Robert McDowell in Australia (anybody have good results with these?). And I have done a lot of research onthis site, so thank you to the person who referred me to the TCC messages. That is where I found a lot of the info I needed when I suspected she might have cancer. Thanks for your support and inspiration. I hope your own pain eases soon, and you and your furbabies are in my thoughts.

I love my baby and want the best for her. I cannot imagine my life without her by my side 24/7 and can't even imagine what I might even WANT to come after. For me there is no next chapter written yet. All I've done all week is cried myself to sleep and kept looking for more information, anything that might help us to help her get well. So she can live until she is old and wise an has had a fulfilling life.

She's only 10 now, too young for a boxer/pit mix to die. ... Still not sure if it's hope or denial or what, but I still believe she has a few happy healthy quality years left in her. Please tell me the truth. Am I kidding myself? Or is it a real possibility? Mother's intuition.

 

Hi--It's Marty again,

I so definitely feel your pain and I don't presume to tell you what to do, but I will tell you my experience and what I have done and what I have found to be true.

My Annie was diagnosed just over 3 years ago she was 9 years old at the time.  Like everyone else, I did my research and I grieved.  And I wasted a lot of time on this computer and a lot of time crying that I should have spent petting Annie and taking her for rides in the car and playing her doggie games with her.

I have not really changed her diet (I did because of the pet food recall, only--she now takes Innova senior dry food) .  Annie has been on 5 mg of piroxicam for these past 3 years and her liver has been tested several times to be sure that it is still fuinctioning well.

I do not know why we have been so lucky, but her 13th birthday will be in April and I am positive that she will still be around for it.  I don't know if she'll make it to number 14, but I've stopped looking that far ahead.

I-- me, personally--would not even remotely consider surgery.  Annie and I have spent a LOT of time in the oncologist's office (we are very very fortunate to live within a hour's drive  of a veterinary specialist's office--they do oncology & ompthamology and emergency care).  From day one, my vet explained that this horrible cancer will not respond to surgery and I understand why.  I would not put Annie through it and I would not waste our time and energy for it.  (Mind you, Annie has also had a mast cell cancer and I had her operated on twice for that--she has had clean margins and that is a non issue for her now)  Like you, like everyone else here on the board, I would do anything for my Annie.  I am charged with her care and I will always do my best by her.  I have sent her blood to Purdue so they can study it and work toward a cure for this one day, I hope.

Perhaps you just are looking to vent here on the board and we will always support you in that effort. But please, don't think that your dog is going to die anyway so why not try extreme measures.  You don't say whether or not your're giving her piroxicam or whether she will tolerate it. For us, it has been a life saver. I know your girl will feel much better when the infections are cleared up.  Again we've been lucky and have had very few over these years.  You might want to try another posting and title it stubborn UTI or some such and see what others have to suggest for that.

I wish I could help you more, but I promise, most everyone will agree, that none of us know how long we will have our babies and the most important thing is to enjoy every minute that they are still here.

The very best of luck to you.

Marty

Marty has said everything so well and I agree with all of her points.  I feel for you, but I know you will make the right decision for you baby.  Good luck!!

Muffie's mom

Hi.  Please know that you're not alone.  I cry every time I try to talk about my JJ who has tcc.  He was first misdiagnosed as having kidney damage caused by repeated uti (his kidneys are actually fine, it was undiagnosed tcc causing problems).  I found out that you can help your dog fight off the repeated infections by acidifying the urine.  There is a urinary acidifier sold at www.drsfostersmith.com that might help prevent the repeated urinary tract infections that are leading to the kidney infections.  Just be sure to get your vet's ok first.  I also found this website:  http://hoecad.com/rennie.html   It's about a dog that had tcc & his problems with repeated uti & drug resistent bacteria--that part is near the bottom of the page. The website also has a recipe for cranberry urine acidifier for dogs.

Good Luck to you & your Ginger.

 

Very sorry for you at this difficult time. You are the only one who knows your baby, and what I found with my dog was that he would go along with anything that I put him through in his battle, and he did it willingly. I had to make a decision to be overly aggressive, or to make sure the time I had with him was good and peaceful FOR HIM, if not for me. Every animal reacts differently to treatment, we had a lot of success in the first 6 weeks with the Piroxicam, so far as surgery was concerned, I could not put him through something so invasive. I absolutely understand your desperation and helplessness and it is sooo frustrating. If there is any advice I could give you it would be to listen to your instincts, you will know what is the best option for your baby. And try really hard not to cry so much, I know it seems impossible, but we all spend so much time mourning them when they are still here and don't know that they are sick! My heart goes out to you and everyone on this site, best of luck for a great outcome. Forrests' mom.