Subject: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/06/2008
I hope this isn't an insensitive or dumb question but I'd like to know how others have approached this. If and when there comes a point that the treatment is taking such a toll on quality of life that it's not worth it, how do you recognize this point?? Do you let the doctors tell you first that they've done all they can? Do you just "instinctly" know? I want myself and my husband to fight this cursed disease with all we have but at the same time, doesn't this have to be weighed against quality of time and living life on one's own terms? I really don't have any answers right now. In fact, I pray we never get to this crossroad.
Subject: RE: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/06/2008
My goodness, you someone to ask that question, I'm assuming you've had a long hard road at this battle. I won't even pretend to relate on this matter because my treatment thus far has been relatively painless. I would have to say, the fight is over when you don't want to fight anymore. If you aren't ready to give up then don't, but I sure hope that your quality of life isn't worse then the alternative. Angie Keep your head up.
Subject: RE: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/06/2008
I think that the ill person just has to say, I don't want to fight anymore. The caregiver MUST leave it up to the sick one and assure them that they will fight with them as long as they want to fight. There was one time in 2004 when I had suffered through surgery and was in the middle of chemo and rad, I was throwing up like crazy and diahrea was hitting me every hour, I had sores in my mouth and as far down my throat as I could see and this had been going own for weeks, my daughter said Mom its okay if you want to give up and I was on my way back from the bathroom with her holding me up and I remember saying maybe tomorrow sweethart, but not today. Today I'm at work, just got back from the beach this weekend I feel wonderful, but a little apprehensive because this Friday I go back for the usual CT and blood workup. But its been four years!!!!! I know howyou feel about giving up,but you can't, it will get better. My prayers are with you and all of your loved ones. Gerri
Subject: RE: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/08/2008
On 5/6/2008 rose01 wrote:
I hope this isn't an insensitive or dumb question but I'd like to know how others have approached this. If and when there comes a point that the treatment is taking such a toll on quality of life that it's not worth it, how do you recognize this point?? Do you let the doctors tell you first that they've done all they can? Do you just "instinctly" know? I want myself and my husband to fight this cursed disease with all we have but at the same time, doesn't this have to be weighed against quality of time and living life on one's own terms? I really don't have any answers right now. In fact, I pray we never get to this crossroad.
My sister had surgery, chemo and radiation for breast cancer. She was to be on tamoxifen and effexor for five years. She did well through the surgery and chemo/radiation treatments. After three years on tamoxifen/effexor she has decided to stop taking the medicine. The medicine had diminished her quality of life. She was very energetic prior to the treatments. While on the medicine (and they tried different types) she could not sleep at night, her whole body was in pain. She used to walk five miles a day; on the medicine she had difficulty walking two blocks. Since not being on the medicine, she feels like her old self. She has her quality of life back. She sometimes worries if she made the right decision, but she is so much less stressed now. We are firm believers that stress plays a big role in cancer. She keeps up on her mammograms, bloodwork etc and feels if she keeps a close watch, she will be able to catch the cancer if it comes back. It is a hard decision. There have been lots of prayers. Goof luck!
Subject: RE: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/08/2008
On 5/8/2008 stringer13 wrote: On 5/6/2008 rose01 wrote:
I hope this isn't an insensitive or dumb question but I'd like to know how others have approached this. If and when there comes a point that the treatment is taking such a toll on quality of life that it's not worth it, how do you recognize this point?? Do you let the doctors tell you first that they've done all they can? Do you just "instinctly" know? I want myself and my husband to fight this cursed disease with all we have but at the same time, doesn't this have to be weighed against quality of time and living life on one's own terms? I really don't have any answers right now. In fact, I pray we never get to this crossroad.
My sister had surgery, chemo and radiation for breast cancer. She was to be on tamoxifen and effexor for five years. She did well through the surgery and chemo/radiation treatments. After three years on tamoxifen/effexor she has decided to stop taking the medicine. The medicine had diminished her quality of life. She was very energetic prior to the treatments. While on the medicine (and they tried different types) she could not sleep at night, her whole body was in pain. She used to walk five miles a day; on the medicine she had difficulty walking two blocks. Since not being on the medicine, she feels like her old self. She has her quality of life back. She sometimes worries if she made the right decision, but she is so much less stressed now. We are firm believers that stress plays a big role in cancer. She keeps up on her mammograms, bloodwork etc and feels if she keeps a close watch, she will be able to catch the cancer if it comes back. It is a hard decision. There have been lots of prayers. Goof luck!
Sorry for the typo:( Good luck!
Subject: RE: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/08/2008
On 5/8/2008 stringer13 wrote: On 5/6/2008 rose01 wrote:
I hope this isn't an insensitive or dumb question but I'd like to know how others have approached this. If and when there comes a point that the treatment is taking such a toll on quality of life that it's not worth it, how do you recognize this point?? Do you let the doctors tell you first that they've done all they can? Do you just "instinctly" know? I want myself and my husband to fight this cursed disease with all we have but at the same time, doesn't this have to be weighed against quality of time and living life on one's own terms? I really don't have any answers right now. In fact, I pray we never get to this crossroad.
My sister had surgery, chemo and radiation for breast cancer. She was to be on tamoxifen and effexor for five years. She did well through the surgery and chemo/radiation treatments. After three years on tamoxifen/effexor she has decided to stop taking the medicine. The medicine had diminished her quality of life. She was very energetic prior to the treatments. While on the medicine (and they tried different types) she could not sleep at night, her whole body was in pain. She used to walk five miles a day; on the medicine she had difficulty walking two blocks. Since not being on the medicine, she feels like her old self. She has her quality of life back. She sometimes worries if she made the right decision, but she is so much less stressed now. We are firm believers that stress plays a big role in cancer. She keeps up on her mammograms, bloodwork etc and feels if she keeps a close watch, she will be able to catch the cancer if it comes back. It is a hard decision. There have been lots of prayers. Goof luck!
hi rose o1.that is the stage i just chose to go on i went off all my cancer drugs after having surgery in 1996 in the ducts they said it was not cancer.then in dec 1999 it was i had a partial mastectomy then 3 weeks later a full mastectomy .after chemo and radiation treatments i.went on the tamoxifin for 5 years almost to the day of previous surgery the cancer came back in 2005.same area left side operated again after this operation tried femara first for a year this gave me a very low bone density.went and tried arimidex after that and this time it came back on the scar tissue of previous operation.back again for operation dec 2007 .all the times i found it .since a lot of testing he put me feb 1st. on aromasin .this was worse for the side effects so on march 27th i chose to take control of my life again and go of my medication.feeling much better since.i think that there are too many toxins beeing created by all these test drugs and they are not tried long enough before they are out on the market.so now i chose quality over quantity i will be 66 this month .and i lost a brother 2 years ago to g.i.st.cancer he was 56.also my dad died of pancreatic cancer at 65.think positive and you are right about the sterss .live each dayto the fullest .
Subject: RE: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/08/2008
My father is 78 years old and has had angiosarcoma (blood vessel cancer) for three years. He received FIVE different types of chemotherapy. The very first one really helped, but the oncologist "wasn't satisfied" with results and wanted to try other ones. Not a good thing. The last combination chemo nearly killed him. He could not eat, lost several pounds, needed repeated blood transfusions (he has a pre-existent anemia), and slept all the time. It was awful. When the oncologist said "I really have something I think can help him out," my father along with my mother and my siblings said "No thanks." Enough was enough. We're talking QUALITY of life, not quantity and my father is doing as well as can be expected at this point in time. My father also has diabetes, Parkinson's disease, and now Parkinson's dementia, along with the anemia. I think he has enough to deal with and chemo would only make him worse off than he is right now. He regained the 10 lbs, is eating very well, and NEVER complains. He doesn't feel sorry for himself either. He is a 12 year colon cancer survivor too. He has endured more than most people do. I asked the dermatologist who diagnosed his angiosarcoma when doctors say enough is enough regarding their patients care. She said they must do everything humanly possible before telling a patient that. Sometimes I don't think that happens. I think doctors have their "quotas" and protocols to deal with. They've got grants and other money coming in to help with research and clinical trials. I think they forget about the patients and deal with stats. It's not fair. My dad's oncologist was upset when he refused more chemo, then said "You've endured so much. I can't blame you." Personally, I think you know in your heart when you've had enough. Bottom line is quality of life. I wish you and your family lots of luck and pray for all families dealing with cancer.
Subject: RE: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/08/2008
That is a question I ask myself every time they start a new regimine of treatments. The pain, the cost, the anemia, the fevers, the anger, the depression, I often wonder if it is all worth it. Then I look at my kids and I think that if I stop trying, I will lose the time I have with them. My wife died of colon cancer in '04 and it was a short fight (41 days) but I know how she wanted to hold on to the family-- no matter the pain. I am trying to be that strong. My fight has been 4 years, 4 rounds of chemo and I am in my 3rd round of radiation now. The doctors are still finding new mets. as it spreads even in treatment, but I keep trudging on... I guess it is easier to follow their advice than have to make a hard decision all by myself. Thanks for asking this, I was afraid to ask myself much less others. You helped me 'figure out' how I feel. Good luck
Subject: RE: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/08/2008
My mother died of pneumonia last year after battling cancer for four years. RIght to the very last second she fought to be alive. SHe had (as many do) a terrible terrible time - she had jaw cancer and was unable to eat/drink/swallow and coughed endlessly, i could go on and on, but basically many would say her quality of life was lower than low.... BUT she wanted to live absolutely. And in my view, if the patient wants to live (bearing in mind low points where they may feel differently, but you can work through these and it is only if this is constant that it is more obvious they do not want to live, that things change), then EVERYTHING must be done to keep them alive. My so called doctors decided she had had enough, and refused her treatment. What can i say... don't EVER let them tell you this. Their stats told them a 71 year old wasn't worth saving. They mistakenly thought the cancer had gone to her brain, when infact when she died she was cancer-free and her 'hallucinations' were due to a drug she was taking for secretions. AN allergic reaction. Your instinct, and the patients feelings are everything. Doctors tell you stuff, but they can only guide to a point. They too are learning by every case. ANd making huge mistakes on the way. Many are marvellous, almost super human. But never make the mistake i made of being too scared to counter them. My very best wishes.... so many survive the dreaded disease now, for me, Diet, positive thinking (i hate that expression!), and love are it... Libby.
Subject: RE: Quality v. quantity
Date: 05/08/2008
Hi I hope this helps The thing is if you have cancer you dont have to die. You see the reasion I say this is I have prostrate cancer. I was told after I had a Biopsies that I had prostate cancer with a Gleason of eight and a psa of 9.8. I was told to get it out fast I had Cancer so I did what the doctors told me, over a six months period I spent over $3000.00 seeing Specialist. Flying to Sydney and then to Brisbane. Each wanted to charge me $20.000 for the Operation a Radical prostatectomy I found out my medical insurance would only have paid out $10.000 for the operation. I it seemed some how would have to come up with the rest. The Doctors wouldn't do the operation any way. they said I weighed to much As at the time my hight was 180cm and my weight was 150kg. One wanted me to slim down to 120kg the other wanted me to go down to 100kls before they do the Operation. the damage that this Radical prostatectomy Operation dos is Frightening. At this time angry and disillusion with the medical perfection I went for a walk I come across one of my neighbours , Jeff who use to live up the road from me. He told me he once had lung cancer he said a few years ago it was poking out of the ribs in the his chest he said he herd I had cancer and he come over to see me he showed me two photos. When the fist photo was taken (years before) he was told he only had two or three weeks to live he showed me the two photos of himself the fist one showed a whole pile of bumps and lumps coming out of the frount of he's chest the other taken months later. was normal it was amazing. he said He's been in remission. for a number of years now. amazed I said How? He said there are three main things that cause cancer Diet Toxins and Stress he told me he was put on meger dos of vitamins plus a strick diet of veg he all so used a product called Liquid Zeolite for the toxins I said Zeo-What. He said I got it of the internet it works. he told me go to my computer. Go to google and just to tipe in Zeolite so I did. This gave me hope he said when he started taking all this .Only a few days later he could feel it starting to work as his chest felt ichy. So he knew some thing was happing. He told me he was taking a large dayly dos of Vitamin B and C plus 15 drops 4 x a day of the Zeolite a few months later after one of the x-ray showed the tumours almost gone he upped it to 20 drops 4 x a day. he said hes seen a lot of people use thes not one has told him it dident work. He also told me if you think your going to die you will. You have to have hope. And I do. it been over a year now I'm now on a diet but I wont be having any operation. Im still fighting the cancer and I can feel Im wining I using two main compond now. One is Liquid Zeolite witch they say removes toxions. I also on other things it a natural product called N-Tense it got a combination of Graviola with 7 other rainforest plants and Graviola the maker says it boost up the immune system. these two products in them selfs are very powerfull cancer fighting drugs the Liquid Zeolite cost me about 33 dollors a bottle and I needed 15 bottles and N-tense. Cost me $55.00. Both target cancer cells. They cost me all to gether $555.00 it a bit cheeper then $20,000 for the operation. Talking to the right people. I know there is no known cure for cancer. Once we get it we have it for life. All we can then do is boost up our immune system so it can fight it. And that for the next 20 so years of my life is what I'm going to do. only afters a month on the vitamins and the Liquid Zeolite I felt i was geting better I can feel it now I have more energy and at last I can go to the loo and not take forever to go. you dont have to die with Cancer. in the last 12 months I found out that most of my doctors dont know about other treatments and they also feel they dont want to know if you want to find out for your self go down to the shop and get a bottle of 1000mg of Bio C or vitamin C start taking a 1000mg a day to start with. Beleave me you will start to feel better with in a week or two any one wants to reply feel free. God bless you Ray
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