Question About Vitamin C

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Question About Vitamin C

by ladyjogger31 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Hi Ladies, Is there anyone who takes Vitamin C while taking chemo. My Gyn/Onc in Lehigh said just to take Centrum Silver and nothing else because in will lessen the effects of the chemo doing it's job. Then I have the Onc where I live tell me I can take anything that it will not interfere. Could anyone explain this? I'm so confused.I have been taking supplements all the while I started Doxil.I thought what do I have to lose.
Hugs and Prayers Terry

RE: Question About Vitamin C

by Shemay on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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On 3/13/2009 ladyjogger31 wrote:

Hi Ladies, Is there anyone who takes Vitamin C while taking chemo. My Gyn/Onc in Lehigh said just to take Centrum Silver and nothing else because in will lessen the effects of the chemo doing it's job. Then I have the Onc where I live tell me I can take anything that it will not interfere. Could anyone explain this? I'm so confused.I have been taking supplements all the while I started Doxil.I thought what do I have to lose.
Hugs and Prayers Terry

______________________________________________________________ Hi Terry......... Here is just one link from my files that should clarify this for you. If you'd like more info let me know. You should probably pass the information along to your Gyn/Onc in Lehigh. I'm sure he would not dispute the reliability of the source........ Keep up that positive energy on the CHEMOTHERAPY board. You're all an inspiration!!!!!.........Sheila............. ______________________________________________________________ PubMedA service of the U.S. National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health............... Simone Protective Cancer Institute in Lawrenceville, NJ, USA. ....................... PURPOSE: Some in the oncology community contend that patients undergoing chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy should not use food supplement antioxidants and other nutrients. Oncologists at an influential oncology institution contended that antioxidants interfere with radiation and some chemotherapies because those modalities kill by generating free radicals that are neutralized by antioxidants, and that folic acid interferes with methotrexate. This is despite the common use of amifostine and dexrazoxane, 2 prescription antioxidants, during chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy. DESIGN: To assess all evidence concerning antioxidant and other nutrients used concomitantly with chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy, the MEDLINE and CANCERLIT databases were searched from 1965 to November 2003 using the words vitamins, antioxidants, chemotherapy, and radiation therapy. Bibliographies of articles were searched. All studies reporting concomitant nutrient use with chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy (280 peer-reviewed articles including 62 in vitro and 218 in vivo) were indiscriminately included. RESULTS: Fifty human clinical randomized or observational trials have been conducted, involving 8,521 patients using beta-carotene; vitamins A, C, and E; selenium; cysteine; B vitamins; vitamin D3; vitamin K3; and glutathione as single agents or in combination. CONCLUSIONS: Since the 1970s, 280 peer-reviewed in vitro and in vivo studies, including 50 human studies involving 8,521 patients, 5,081 of whom were given nutrients, have consistently shown that non-prescription antioxidants and other nutrients do not interfere with therapeutic modalities for cancer. Furthermore, they enhance the killing of therapeutic modalities for cancer, decrease their side effects, and protect normal tissue. In 15 human studies, 3,738 patients who took non-prescription antioxidants and other nutrients actually had increased survival. ................. PMID: 17283738 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE .............Reference............http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17283738 ............... _______________________________________________________________ P.S. In case you have not come across the following blog...... http://motherearthtreasurechest.blogspot.com/ .......... do have a look. This blog belongs to one of our cancercompass members...Trehouse60.....who was an oncology nurse who is now keeping her breast cancer mets controlled using natural, alternative, affordable protocols. There is a wealth of helpful information there along with direct contact information for anyone with personal questions........ Hugs for you too..........

RE: Question About Vitamin C

by trehouse60 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Hi Terry,

Unfortunately for people like us who want to do the very best for our bodies that we can, nutrition and supplementation and their effects on treatment haven't been given the strongest emphasis in medical schools. Consequently there are literally hundreds and hundreds of drs out there who don't really know how to answer patients' questions about what supplements they should or shouldn't take with certain drugs, disease processes, etc. (Both my family practice doc and my oncologist will admit as much to me - but many other docs won't admit that they don't know a lot about nutrition and that they don't see any pressing need to learn.) I think the situation has gotten somewhat better than when I went to nursing school in the early 80's, but quite possibly it hasn't gotten a whole lot better.

When the big gun cancer drugs were developed, starting in the 60's and 70's, there wasn't a whole lot of attention paid to the interaction of vitamins, minerals, and foods - unless there was something that just absolutely hugely stuck out that caused a problem, many drs were taught that a multiple vitamin was all that was needed and in general it wouldn't cause any problems.  There was a big push at that time by certain pharmaceutical companies to use products like Centrum Silver - and that is what has stuck as far as most MD's recommendations go, even several decades later.

As time has gone on, it's been found out that there are some drugs that really can get interference from this or that natural compound - and those things have been incorporated into the pharmacology and drug reference books and printed on the packaging information of individual drugs, but that doesn't mean that all the drs are caught up on everything that's been learned.

I took some time and looked at online references to product information for Doxil from the manufacturer - these are the food and over-the-counter drugs and supplements  I found that are contraindicated:

turmeric - avoid any kind of turmeric spice in food as it decreases the effectiveness of Doxil.  This would also indicate avoiding curcumin supplements - curcumin = turmeric. 

aspirin - avoid aspirin unless ok'd by your dr

progesterone -  avoid prescription progesterone products.  I would avoid any kind of over-the-counter progesterone, just to be safe.  You might also look on the web for foods that are especially high in phytoprogesterone, and avoid those also.

http://www.rxlist.com/doxil-drug.htm

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-12120-Doxil.aspx?drugid=1212

The real threat with Doxil is toxicity to the heart.  Even though the lyposomal doxorubicin (Doxil) is supposed to be gentler on the system than the original doxorubicin hydrochloride (Adriamycin - or otherwise known as the Red Devil - with good reason), it still can be exceedingly hard on the heart (and the liver, but more so the heart.)

I've found that naturopathic/holistic practitioners - including naturopathic drs,  are among the best in terms of recognizing the importance of nutrition in treatment, and are among the most knowledgable as to which foods/supplements/ herbs are safe to take with specific medications, and which should be avoided.   I did find one site by a naturopathic dr that talks specifically about the effects of Doxil and those things that might best protect against cardiac toxicity:

 Coenzyme Q10 - may reduce heart toxicity

Vitamin E may reduce heart toxicity (controversial).

Selenium, Glutathione and Vitamin C
Antioxidants may reduce heart toxicity and increase survival time.

 http://www.naturdoctor.com/Chapters/Drugs/Doxorubicin.html

So, if you want to take your vitamin c, and whatever - and whoever it is actually prescribing your chemo has no objection, then I say go for it.  (You mentioned two dr's in your post - I would pay most attention to the dr who is actually doing the prescribing, as they are the one who is sposed to be keeping track of everything that is going on with you in terms of cancer treatment.)

 I hope this helps, and I wish you the best with your treatment.

Sincerely,

Tre

RE: Question About Vitamin C

by johnsc on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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On 3/13/2009 ladyjogger31 wrote:

Hi Ladies, Is there anyone who takes Vitamin C while taking chemo. My Gyn/Onc in Lehigh said just to take Centrum Silver and nothing else because in will lessen the effects of the chemo doing it's job. Then I have the Onc where I live tell me I can take anything that it will not interfere. Could anyone explain this? I'm so confused.I have been taking supplements all the while I started Doxil.I thought what do I have to lose.
Hugs and Prayers Terry

Hi Terry, Your gyn/onc was referring to the recent Memorial Sloan-Kettering study which showed that Vitamin C apparently has a protective effect on the cancer cells as well as normal cells. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/vitamin-c-may-inter "The chemotherapy agents killed 30 to 70 percent fewer cancer cells when the cells were treated with the vitamin." Hope that clears up the confusion. — John

RE: Question About Vitamin C

by ladyjogger31 on Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM

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Hi John, Thanks for the article, it was very intersting. It did clear up alot of issues as I was getting different signals. I haven't started to take it and I know now I won't.

Thanks, Terry

RE: Question About Vitamin C

by ladyjogger31 on Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM

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I didn't take anything except Centrum Silver while I had 8 treatment of carbo/taxol. When I was on Doxil about my 3rd treatment I started to take AHCC mushrooms to build up my immune system. Oh and I also asked my Onc about taking Curcumin as I had read from MD Anderson that it helps fight the cancer cells. He said he heard good thing about it and I could take it. I sometimes wonder if they really know themselves. I also take the AHCC mushrooms in powder form. I have been taking it for months. I also take coQ10 for my heart,selenium,200mg of Vitamin E, 1000mg of fish oil for heart, milk thistle for my liver along with the Centrum silver, caltrate with vitamin D and probiotic for my digestive system. I haven't taken Vitamin C as of yet. My Onc said that it was okay to take all that I mentioned. My Gyn/Onc in Lehigh would probably object to this. I'm going to Fox Chase in Philadelphia and also Sloan Kettering in NYC. I'm just waiting for my appointments. Also I was told eat anything you want, but after so much research , nutrition is very important. I’m getting so many different answers from both doctors. I'm really confused. I have to do what I think will fight the cancer in my body, I’m trying to get the best quality of life. I’m not giving up. If anyone has more to add , please let me know. Hugs, Prayers and Love, Terry

RE: Question About Vitamin C

by HarryChin on Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:00 AM

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On 3/14/2009 ladyjogger31 wrote:

Hi John, Thanks for the article, it was very intersting. It did clear up alot of issues as I was getting different signals. I haven't started to take it and I know now I won't.

Thanks, Terry

 

I wouldn’t be in a big hurry to base my decision on whether on not to take vitamin C on one study done by an associate attending at Sloan Kettering. You'll also find a lot of research claiming that many antioxidants inhibit the effects of chemotherapy. Many researchers diagree with those generalizations and feel that supporting the immune system is beneficial during toxic therapy.

One comment on that article suggested that the multiple Nobel Prize winning Linus Pauling is probably rolling in his grave over this lastest attempt to disassociate the effectiveness of vitamin C in the treatment of cancer. Even the researchers aren't claiming their findings are conclusive, by any means.

 

Regarding diet, my mother’s oncologist suggested she eat things like bacon and ice cream. I don’t think there’s any substitute for learning as much as we can from different sources and making the best informed decisions we're capable of. It can be difficult for the cancer industry to be impartial and their advice isn't always what's best for you.

 

Take care.

 

 

 

RE: Question About Vitamin C

by Bella100 on Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:00 AM

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I was taking about 100grams of Vit C intravenously 2 days after every chemo..Carboplatin... and really did not interfere with chemo at all.On contrary it did help my heart my stomach and my bone marrow. Mayo clinic did tests and research  only  on oral vitamin C and of course it did not help to kill cancer....only adjuvant Vitamin C therapy will do the job.There is more to it than just taking it it must be taken everyday for almost 6 weeks....that's when is the most effective.

I took it little too late and it slowed things down tremendously....that I could cope with cancer for 3 years without chemo and still do but I am on different "controversial" therapy that many do not believe in.

Your immune system is the key to recovery...and if we will take many chemo's our immune system will be dead and cancer will grow.

 

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