symptoms of liver mets

I just wanted to ask someone who is experiencing symptoms or fighting the dreaded br. ca. mets to liver.  Are the symptoms very vague or are they very profound and just couldnt be mistaken for anything else going on?  I have mets to the lung, and recent petscan showed no other activity in my body..but since the liver normally lights up on these scans how can they be sure that there isnt nodules in the liver?  I am hoping someone on this message board will be able to shed some light on my symptoms.  I am not paranoid, I got over being that a long time ago, but just curious and wondering if my suspicions could be right.  I have been having nausea alot for a couple weeks with slight achy pain under my right rib.  No gallbladder problems, had that removed in 83..  I had a herceptin treatment a couple weeks ago so I cant believe that these symptoms could be from that.  But anyway, I eat and it just goes right on through my system.. I know the herceptin does cause this problem to a point but this has gotten very out of hand..it is a daily issue and after I eat anything.  No fever..just this nonstop nausea like a woman gets when she is pregnant.  I have taken nausea meds but it hasnt helped that much.  So I was hoping someone dealing with this liver mets issue could possibly shed some light on what I might be dealing with.. I dont run to dr with every complaint, quit doing that a long time ago too.  So I just am wondering is it possible for there to be liver mets and it not show up on the petscan..? 

Thankyou ladies!

Jodie

I am not in your situation but wanted to respond to your comment about not bothering your doctors with your concerns.  I attend a support group with Bernie Seigel who was a surgeon at Yale New Haven Hospital for decades and started his mind/body work in the 80s.  He has written several books about working with Cancer patients and teaching survival techniques.  My favorite book of his is "Love, Medicine and Miracles".  He would tell you to be a difficult patient.  He would say to go with your instincts.  If you feel something isn't right, say so.  It could save your life!  He would suggest you to pester your doctor's whenever you feel you need to because you matter.  You are special and deserve attention.  Our doctor's need to earn our confidence and our business.  There are lots of doctors and none of them are gods.  Don't let them dismiss your concerns.

By the way, Bernie's support groups are called ECaP (Exceptional Cancer Patients) so you can look on the website to see if there is a facilitator in your area.

Good luck.

Roseann

Jody-

My girlfriend had gone through the same thing, nausea and in her case vomiting for days. I helped her through 20 months of Stage IIIB OVA and had all the best Drs. and support staff. I think the best determinant factor for liver involvement are the liver enzyme test results. Before the cancer got to her liver, her panel stats were in the normal range.  Over a month or two, two of the stats were doubled and one of the others was elevated. Three of the ones that really changed were the AST, ALT and ALP. These are directly related (but not foolproof) as markers for liver damage. Once we knew of the liver being involved, I think a couple of the markers had gotten into 10 to 20X normal. Her CA-125 never got higher than 35, her starting number was 45 (very low but not all that rare).

(I work with a lady that has colon cancer- she had part of her liver removed and though on chemo again, is back at work, looking healthy and feeling pretty good. Her liver panel also was the first sign of the liver mets.

One of Pam's other telltale signs was what she described as a sharp, stabbing pain from the front on her right side towards her back.

As these are only one person's symptoms and tests, the right approach to symptoms is to report them to your doctor. Only offering this info to relate my girlfriend's case about liver mets.

I hope all turns out well and I'm always willing to relate her story if it will help.

Rick)

On 5/30/2009 mistered wrote:

Jody-

My girlfriend had gone through the same thing, nausea and in her case vomiting for days. I helped her through 20 months of Stage IIIB OVA and had all the best Drs. and support staff. I think the best determinant factor for liver involvement are the liver enzyme test results. Before the cancer got to her liver, her panel stats were in the normal range.  Over a month or two, two of the stats were doubled and one of the others was elevated. Three of the ones that really changed were the AST, ALT and ALP. These are directly related (but not foolproof) as markers for liver damage. Once we knew of the liver being involved, I think a couple of the markers had gotten into 10 to 20X normal. Her CA-125 never got higher than 35, her starting number was 45 (very low but not all that rare).

(I work with a lady that has colon cancer- she had part of her liver removed and though on chemo again, is back at work, looking healthy and feeling pretty good. Her liver panel also was the first sign of the liver mets.

One of Pam's other telltale signs was what she described as a sharp, stabbing pain from the front on her right side towards her back.

As these are only one person's symptoms and tests, the right approach to symptoms is to report them to your doctor. Only offering this info to relate my girlfriend's case about liver mets.

I hope all turns out well and I'm always willing to relate her story if it will help.

 

Rick)

Mistered: Thankyou for your reply.  I know its hard to really go by someone elses symptoms, I would mention it to my dr. but when I do if I have just had a petscan that showed no activity anywhere, he will bring up this point, in other words he is saying it couldnt be what I am suspecting or it would have shown up on the scan.. but I understand from others that I have read about going through this same plight that the liver doesnt always show up nodules..it depends on where they are in the liver.. there was a spot that I could see on the cd up around the liver area that lit up, and was just brushed off as physiological normal things that light up.  So that is why I was hoping someone going through this could maybe really help me in knowing that my suspicions could be justified inspite of the pet scan results.  Hope this makes since!!?   I do have bouts of being somewhat juandiced in color..my husband always brings this to my attention..  but I just shrug and say, I dont know?  The clinic where I get my herceptin treatments do test my blood everytime I'm there..but I wasnt sure if the liver enzyme deal would have to be a seperate blood test or study. 

But, thankyou for all of your replys, and I agree with the first person to reply here on this topic, that I know I shouldnt let dr's shrug me off when I am concerned about something..but I dont want to cry wolf if its not something to be really concerned about either..I will put up with alot before I finally will mention it to the dr..silly on my part I know, but I feel silly when I ask and he replys with an answer that says there is no way what I am concerned about is happening to me..  kind of confusing I guess here, but I just needed a little more input from others who might be going through the symptoms I'm having and that would give me the courage to speak up the next time I see the dr and I am still having this ill feeling.  It definatley is a sharp achieness and there is a since of fullness in my upper abdomen..but I am a little heavy so that is hard to determine on just looking at me...so anyway, thankyou to you all who are writing, I like this web site, I suggest it to everyone I talk to at the treatment center where I go for treatments..

blessings to you all.

Jodie

Jodie, there are no symptoms.  I have had liver mets for almost 10 years.  When I was first diagnosed with breast cancer in 2000 they discovered some very tiny metastasis.  Since that time they have come and gone with diff chemos but Xeloda was the most succesful and gave me an unexpected and recent half year remission when I did it the new protocal way which is taking the pills for 7 days then stopping them for 7 days (7/7 protocal.)

 Currently I have been considering chemoembolism and RFA (radiofrequency ablation) for them because they have grown quite abit and am seeing a surgeon this week to see if I might be a candidate for those procedure.

 I have never ever had any symptoms except the day after I see the oncologist and then I have pains of all shapes and sizes, think I'm dying, begin to write a will etc etc.  Purely psychosomatic.

 But if you have nausea or stomach upset alot of the time you absolutely need to tell your oncologist.  It might be a drug you do or something else but you need to make sure you report those things to your doc. 

 I'd like to hear from people who do Herceptin, because my 10 year,  estrogen sensitive, Stage 4 cancer is - it seems, I do a biopsy next week to determine this for sure  -  changing we think to HER2 positive.  Suddenly my "indolent" cancer has become aggressive. 

My oncologist also mentioned Tykerb saying it made all of her patients quite sick, which I could have screamed when she told me because I tell all of my treating physicians NOT EVER to tell me side effects as it predisposes me to get them !!!  So is there anyone who takes Tykerb without getting nauseous and having diahreah???

 Thanks, Nancy

On 5/30/2009 Jodie wrote:

 

On 5/30/2009 mistered wrote:

Jody-

My girlfriend had gone through the same thing, nausea and in her case vomiting for days. I helped her through 20 months of Stage IIIB OVA and had all the best Drs. and support staff. I think the best determinant factor for liver involvement are the liver enzyme test results. Before the cancer got to her liver, her panel stats were in the normal range.  Over a month or two, two of the stats were doubled and one of the others was elevated. Three of the ones that really changed were the AST, ALT and ALP. These are directly related (but not foolproof) as markers for liver damage. Once we knew of the liver being involved, I think a couple of the markers had gotten into 10 to 20X normal. Her CA-125 never got higher than 35, her starting number was 45 (very low but not all that rare).

(I work with a lady that has colon cancer- she had part of her liver removed and though on chemo again, is back at work, looking healthy and feeling pretty good. Her liver panel also was the first sign of the liver mets.

One of Pam's other telltale signs was what she described as a sharp, stabbing pain from the front on her right side towards her back.

As these are only one person's symptoms and tests, the right approach to symptoms is to report them to your doctor. Only offering this info to relate my girlfriend's case about liver mets.

I hope all turns out well and I'm always willing to relate her story if it will help.

 

Rick)

Mistered: Thankyou for your reply.  I know its hard to really go by someone elses symptoms, I would mention it to my dr. but when I do if I have just had a petscan that showed no activity anywhere, he will bring up this point, in other words he is saying it couldnt be what I am suspecting or it would have shown up on the scan.. but I understand from others that I have read about going through this same plight that the liver doesnt always show up nodules..it depends on where they are in the liver.. there was a spot that I could see on the cd up around the liver area that lit up, and was just brushed off as physiological normal things that light up.  So that is why I was hoping someone going through this could maybe really help me in knowing that my suspicions could be justified inspite of the pet scan results.  Hope this makes since!!?   I do have bouts of being somewhat juandiced in color..my husband always brings this to my attention..  but I just shrug and say, I dont know?  The clinic where I get my herceptin treatments do test my blood everytime I'm there..but I wasnt sure if the liver enzyme deal would have to be a seperate blood test or study. 

But, thankyou for all of your replys, and I agree with the first person to reply here on this topic, that I know I shouldnt let dr's shrug me off when I am concerned about something..but I dont want to cry wolf if its not something to be really concerned about either..I will put up with alot before I finally will mention it to the dr..silly on my part I know, but I feel silly when I ask and he replys with an answer that says there is no way what I am concerned about is happening to me..  kind of confusing I guess here, but I just needed a little more input from others who might be going through the symptoms I'm having and that would give me the courage to speak up the next time I see the dr and I am still having this ill feeling.  It definatley is a sharp achieness and there is a since of fullness in my upper abdomen..but I am a little heavy so that is hard to determine on just looking at me...so anyway, thankyou to you all who are writing, I like this web site, I suggest it to everyone I talk to at the treatment center where I go for treatments..

blessings to you all.

Jodie

I also have mets in my liver.  Only a CT Scan shows them.  No other symptoms.  They were discovered during my first diagnosis with cancer which was 6 years ago.    But  they have not been growing thanks to Sutent,  Avastin and Sandostatin.  My cancer is carcinoid syndrome or neuro endocrine cancer.  I have learned  to live with it.  My 92 year old mother  who was never diagnosed with this disease suffered for years with the same symptoms that I have.  In retrospect I think she also had neuro endocrine cancer which is a very slow growing cancer.  Her symptoms have vanished  and I hope mine will too with all the advanced treatments that I have been getting.  Good luck.

Siegrun   

 Siegrun