IL2

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IL2

by jeanabenna on Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:00 AM

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Hey everyone,

I have RCC that mets to the brain and the lungs.  Had nephrectomy Jan 08, my brain was radiated March 2008.  My lung lesions haven't  grown to fast but they are beginning to grow.  My Dr. wants me to start the Interlukin 2 next month.  Has anyone had this and if so how was it?

Thanks for any information might have, it would be very apprciated.

 

RE: IL2

by BobMar272 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:00 AM

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JennaBenna, IL-2 is just what alot of people say--Chemo on Roids. I went through 5 cycles and it is holding the cancer back at this instant--it is hell on wheels when you get it though. If you are in good shape I say go for it--You will feel terrible when you are getting it but believe it or not the effects clear pretty quickly once you finish. I am sure there is a reason your Dr wants to take this option--honestly he must think you are a pretty tough person. Where will you take the treatment--I was a Duke and they were outstanding.

RE: IL2

by Ike4y on Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:00 AM

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Hello Jeannabenna:

I too have tried high dose IL-2. I was able to get through 18 courses of this stuff (given every 8 hours for two week intervals) but it did not help me. To my understanding it has a success rate of about 5-20%, so if you are one of the lucky ones, it will help.

I must tell you though, that for me it was one of the hardest things other than the actual surgery, to go through. You go through what are known as the "shakes". your blood pressure drops, you get a terrible rash, and you mght have to go through what is known as "capillary leak syndrome". Which you get all puffy and swollen.

Is it worth it? It is one one the few things that can offer a durable response or cure for renal cell (stem cell transplant maybe another option). IL-2 is a personel decision whether to go through it or not.

Oh by the way, did you have that Vitamin C infusion or DMSO therapy? How did that work for you?

Krys

RE: IL2

by jeanabenna on Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:00 AM

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Thanks for the information and the encouragement.  I am in good shape.  I don't smoke and was running 5 miles a day before my diagnosis, now I walk 2 miles a day and some weight training.  I did have a brain tumor but they believe that is gone : ))  so if my brain still looks good when I have my scan on Sept 4th then I will start the IL2 on Sept 8....

thanks again

 

RE: IL2

by jeanabenna on Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:00 AM

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Krys,

Thanks for the info.  Yes, I did the DMSO infusion for a year, I did Vitamin C and I also did Blood ozination.  I believe that it has slowed down the progression of my lesions on my lungs, but my lesions on my lungs have increased enough that they think it is time to use the IL2.  But I am worried about the side effects and I understand that the percentage of responders isin't very high......wish they could find something that  would cure us or at least put us all in remission.

Thanks again

RE: IL2

by goerge on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:00 AM

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Here is an option that will if nothing else help you to understand you disease.

One thing that is not to often made known to cancer patients, probably because it is a little bit technical, is that malignant tumors shed antigen and that when this is in excess with antibodies , antigen-antibody complexes are formed, which block further attack and shields the tumor from the immune system both locally and system wide.

There is also not only a suppression of the immune response to the tumor by suppressor T-cells but there is also a mechanism of tolerance called T-Cells and B-cells anergy, where these important players in the immune response become unresponsive. This seems to be somewhat reversible with the removal of the antigen though (Sci. aug21 92).

Beside these problem there is also an immuno-selection process where easily targeted tumor cells are killed off and the surviving tumor cells increasingly produce new undetected lines of descendants.

In a nutshell these seem to be the main problems as to the persistence of diseased state in the face of natural defense mechanisms.

There is however a white blood cell that is capable of eating (phagocytes) antigen-antibody complexes and adcc (antibody dependant cell mediated cytotoxicity). This is where the immune cell  locks on to the tail (fc) region of the antibody that is attached to the cancer cell and chemically destroys it..

This white blood cell is call the eosinophil and because of these attributes and ease of access it is functionally equipped to combat multicellular parasites (helminthes), which present similar strategy requirements to cancer (size [relatively speaking], immunological shielding, and evasion).

 

Other immunotherapies fail because these therapies attemp to employ via vaccines, and other modes, macrophages, neutrophils, monocytes, and cytotoxic t’s which are equipped to elimiate smaller pathogens, and although these cells are needed in the total response they are by themselves ineffective against targets that are too large and that are immunolgically shielded by antigen antibody complexes.

I believe that in the use of il-2 to treat cancer; the eosinophil is a key component in the cases that are successful. I am not sure of this though. (see1698 Year 1998 Biological Responses to Intraperitoneal Interlekin-2 (IPIL-2) Infusions In the peritoneal cavity....... R. Edwards et.al. www.asco.org/prof/me/html/98abstracts/ibt/m_1698.htm)   

Because activated eosinophils are associated with the strong and persistent th-2 immune response and because eosinophils are capable of both phagocytsising antigen and antibody complexes (Clinical and Basic Immunology 1977 edition page 285), have adcc capablities and have ease of access to and into the tumor, they meet the necessary strategic requirements in reducing tumor size.

Futhermore, because helminth excretory and secretory (HES) antigens elicite such a pronounced Th2 immune response that they cause bystander (Eur. J. Immunol. 2000. 30: 1977-1987 J. Holland et. al.) antigens (tumor) responses to also be driven to a Th2 response.

This will result in the immunolgical response to the tumor as if it were a helminth.

Freeze/thaw killed helminth ova have a similar effect but not as pronounced.

It can be implemented by first inoculating the patient with helminth antigen (not HES or ova).

When the serum activated eosinophil level reaches at least 20%; the HES or freeze/thaw killed ova of the same species as the inoculation can now be injected into the tumor or tumors.

Best wishes

 

 

Ps

Circumstantial evidence:

) antigen-antibody complexes and adcc (antibody dependant cell mediated cytotoxicity). This is where the immune cell  locks on to the tail (fc) region of the antibody that is attached to the cancer cell and chemically destroys it..

This white blood cell is call the eosinophil and because of these attributes and ease of access it is functionally equipped to combat multicellular parasites (helminthes), which present similar strategy requirements to cancer (size [relatively speaking], immunological shielding, and evasion).

 

Other immunotherapies fail because these therapies attemp to employ via vaccines, and other modes, macrophages, neutrophils, monocytes, and cytotoxic t’s which are equipped to elimiate smaller pathogens, and although these cells are needed in the total response they are by themselves ineffective against targets that are too large and that are immunolgically shielded by antigen antibody complexes.

I believe that in the use of il-2 to treat cancer; the eosinophil is a key component in the cases that are successful. I am not sure of this though. (see1698 Year 1998 Biological Responses to Intraperitoneal Interlekin-2 (IPIL-2) Infusions In the peritoneal cavity....... R. Edwards et.al. www.asco.org/prof/me/html/98abstracts/ibt/m_1698.htm)   

Because activated eosinophils are associated with the strong and persistent th-2 immune response and because eosinophils are capable of both phagocytsising antigen and antibody complexes (Clinical and Basic Immunology 1977 edition page 285), have adcc capablities and have ease of access to and into the tumor, they meet the necessary strategic requirements in reducing tumor size.

Futhermore, because helminth excretory and secretory (HES) antigens elicite such a pronounced Th2 immune response that they cause bystander (Eur. J. Immunol. 2000. 30: 1977-1987 J. Holland et. al.) antigens (tumor) responses to also be driven to a Th2 response.

This will result in the immunolgical response to the tumor as if it were a helminth.

Freeze/thaw killed helminth ova have a similar effect but not as pronounced.

It can be implemented by first inoculating the patient with helminth antigen (not HES or ova).

When the serum activated eosinophil level reaches at least 20%; the HES or freeze/thaw killed ova of the same species as the inoculation can now be injected into the tumor or tumors.

Best wishes

 

 

Ps

Circumstantial evidence:

Because activated eosinophils are associated with the strong and persistent th-2 immune response and because eosinophils are capable of both phagocytsising antigen and antibody complexes (Clinical and Basic Immunology 1977 edition page 285), have adcc capablities and have ease of access to and into the tumor, they meet the necessary strategic requirements in reducing tumor size.

Futhermore, because helminth excretory and secretory (HES) antigens elicite such a pronounced Th2 immune response that they cause bystander (Eur. J. Immunol. 2000. 30: 1977-1987 J. Holland et. al.) antigens (tumor) responses to also be driven to a Th2 response.

This will result in the immunolgical response to the tumor as if it were a helminth.

Freeze/thaw killed helminth ova have a similar effect but not as pronounced.

It can be implemented by first inoculating the patient with helminth antigen (not HES or ova).

When the serum activated eosinophil level reaches at least 20%; the HES or freeze/thaw killed ova of the same species as the inoculation can now be injected into the tumor or tumors.

Best wishes

 

 

Ps

Circumstantial evidence:

1) http://jcsmr.anu.edu.au/org/imm/canc-vascbiol/cellular/resea (see bottom bullet point).

2)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RE: IL2

by Trishpm on Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:00 AM

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The email support list for kidney cancer (see http://cancerguide.org/kofaq/  ) has many who have had IL-2 treatment.

RE: IL2

by Ike4y on Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:00 AM

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Hi Goerge:

Interesting stuff. My eosinophil counts were exceedingly well during IL-2 treatment for me, yet I was not able to acheive a response. Across the board it looked like I would be a responder, but no dice.

To my knowledge, your chances of a response to IL-2 therapy is better if your histology is of the clear cell variety and CA IX positive (carbonic anhydrase 9) which is a marker on the tumor cell.

I believe I have also read somewhere that the renal cell carcinoma is able to recruit macrophages for immunolgical shielding from other tumor responsive cells.

You are right about Darwinian survival of the fitest, which would explain eventual drug resistance of RCC. I believe the immunological route is the best way to acheive a durable response, or dare I say cure.

I am on combination drug therapy for now which is stablalizing my disease but am seeking other eventual options. I am interested in stem cell transplantation and can't wait for the IL-15 trials to start which may offer other paths to overcome tumor resistance.

Thanks for the info.

Krys

RE: IL2

by jeanabenna on Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:00 AM

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Hey Krys

What is Stem Cell Transplant?, is it something that might be offered to us?  Thanks

RE: IL2

by Ike4y on Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:00 AM

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Hi Jeannabenna:

See my post "Stem Cell Transplant" under Renal on the message board.

Krys

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