Temodar not working...try Avastin

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Temodar not working...try Avastin

by dianar2 on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Okay, so here I go again with my try Avastin speech. My husband died April 3, 2009 after only 5 and a half months after being diagnosed with a GBM. It was almost 7 cm in size and in his left temp. lobe. Anyhow, the tumor shrunk and after debulking, and Temodar and radiation, and then 4 weeks off, then two doses of higher dose Temodar we lost him anyway.

Why didn't we try Avastin even though it was one of the only things showing a lot of promise with so many people? Because the doctors were doing "standard treatment" and Avastin was a later drug to try.

Well my husband did not get a chance to try it later because when I begged them to try it, they said it was too late and he would not survive it. The tumor was almost gone, but swelling and fluid appeared to be what took my husband. And lo and behold, Avastin lessens fluid and swelling in many people.

So even though Avastin is not a cure all and some people have trouble with it, many are surviving so much longer using it as a first line of defense drug instead of waiting.

If we could start over I would have opted for debulking then avastin and pin point radiation instead of the full radiation. I guess we would have done the lower dose temodar too, but not the heavier dose.

I am not sure if that would have saved my husband, but I know that what we did did not work. If life expectancy for gbm is 13 months, people like my husband are at the low end of that.

Today is one year from the date that my husband was diagnosed with the gbm. My heart goes out to each and every one of you as you face this horrible disease. 

God bless you all.

-Diana

RE: Temodar not working...try Avastin

by dianar2 on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Okay, so I just went back to my last try avastin rant and now I remember that it does not work for everyone, and why I love this site. We forget things over and over again and need reminders of some things. Like I needed a reminder that my husband and I did do all that we thought we could and we thought was right at the time that each step happened. And there is not proof that the Avastin would have helped. It does for some, but then I am reminded that the Temodar works for some. I think the point should be made though that there is not (all the time in the world) to make choices. If something is to be tried, it should be right away.

For those that are wondering how I am doing. Today is a rough day and it is those rough days that I tend to come back here. It is a difficult day because it is the day that my husband was diagnosed with the brain tumor last year and it is just over 6 months since I lost him.

For the first three months after losing him I was in shock and on auto pilot. It was such a raw open wound even though I could feel his spirit pushing me to live and remember that he is still here with me in my heart.

At first I cried oceans, then I cried rivers, and now I cry streams. My life is bearable most days and even some days I see the sunshine and have moments of joy again. It is so not the same without my husband to share each day with like we used to though.

I am surviving and I have always known even during the darkest moments that "though I don't like it" I will survive and endure until...

The open wound of grief becomes a scar. You always know it is there and some days are so hard still....like today and what would have been our anniversary, but most days go from unbearable to bearable. You never forget!!! You only learn how to go on remembering your love. Some memories begin to bring smiles at the times that you shared.

My husband was and always will be such a gift to me! If I could spend an eternity with anyone else or just the 12 years that we shared with my husband I would choose the 12 years with my husband. He was so much of what has made me whole and a person does not go from being whole to being half.

One of the best things that my husband did for me was to place his hand on my heart and tell me that he would always be right here with me. I felt the warmth of his hand. During some of the most difficult moments I swear I have felt the warmth of his hand on my heart and it has brought me through the difficult moment.

So that is how I am doing. Myself and the children miss him so very much, but we are all surviving one day, one hour, one moment at a time.

God bless you all...

-Diana 

RE: Temodar not working...try Avastin

by kwajalinda on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Diana - I am so sorry for your loss. I just want to say what I'm sure others will respond with, as well: that you did what you could, given the circumstances. Please don't second guess your judgements and decisions. In fact, if I recall correctly, my husband's doctors told us we couldn't do anything, ANYTHING, except "standard of care" as the first treatment option. Then, and only then, could we try clinical trials, newer treatments like avastin (which hadn't been FDA approved a year ago, when he was diagnosed). We've tried a bunch of them, and while his tumors are stable since August, he slowly, steadily declines. Every day I see some new symptom or manifestation that I didn't see the day before. 

But we are doing what is within our power, and I know that you and your husband made the best decisions you could, based on the circumstances you were in. I don't know if it's the same with every type of cancer, but brain cancer seems to be so individualized -- every case is different, depending on the person, the tumors, the location, the size, etc. I've found that no one is "average" in this world, and I sort of wish the doctors hadn't given us the "average life expectancy" as now I hear the clock tick louder every day.

 Please take comfort knowing you did what was right. - Linda

RE: Temodar not working...try Avastin

by sonia09 on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Hi Diana,

I think of you often and have hoped that you're doing a wee bit better now. Am glad you hear that some days are better than the rest, and while I'm facing the prospect of losing my dear mum to brain cancer, and not the love of my life, the heartbreak is still there, in a somewhat different form. We're doing the standard treatment and don't believe Avastin will ever be an option for my mom, so I can only hope Temodar does continue to work for her.

Your words are wise, kind and very helpful, and my best wishes to you and yours to deal with this difficult day.

RE: Temodar not working...try Avastin

by gbmwife on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Diana,

Your message is a powerful one especially about having all the facts before jumping into a course of treatment and later regrets.  I don't know where your husband was treated and I don't know all the facts of his case or your personal/financial situation but I do have experience with GBM and Avastin and I would like to add some information about what my husband's experience was.  I also want to say that you should try and not second guess yourself.  You did the best you could and trusted the doctors you had.  If anything your frustrations and disappointments are caused by the inefficiencies, shortcomings and poor coordination of the medical system in the United States.

My husband was diagnosed with a multifocal GBM which had tumors in every lobe of his brain's left side on July 18, 2008.  The local neurosurgeon in Reno Nevada suggested several things to me that night. 1) standard of care (attempt to debulk/large biopsy, wait for healing 2-3 weeks, radiation for 6 weeks and low dose Temodar, followed by high dose Temodar) 2) do nothing (given the size and aggressiveness of the tumor why spend his last few weeks having surgery, radiation and chemo when what ever time it gains him will be spent being sick, sleeping and uncomfortable.) of course palliative measure would be given. or 3) go to a tertiary care center that does a lot of these and participates in clinical trials.  Time of course was of the essence and this doctor counseled us about the options near and far away and because someone answered a phone on a Saturday my husband ended up with Dr. Keith Black and his team at Cedars-Sinai in LA.

The big differences between what they did and the standard of care is they pushed the envelope.  Fred started radiation and Temodar within 1 week of surgery.  (to wait the standard 2-4 weeks was risking death because of the aggressiveness of the tumor.)  He also started an every 2 week regimen of Avastin at the same time.  The Avastin probably helped control the growth of the tumor but it also acted as a super steroid and controlled the swelling in his brain thus allowing him to take a minimal amount of decadron after weaning from the post surgery highs.

What isn't said in all this is the Avastin even after all appeals and all options considered was not covered by our insurance.  Cancer treatment centers affiliated with hospitals screw self pay individuals and I am on the hook for a lot of money.  In fact the cancer center at Cedars would not provide the first infusion unless I made a deposit of $138,000.  Avastin is not approved by the FDA for GBM as a primary treatment.  It is only approved as a monotherapy (by itself not combined with anything) for recurrence.  This approval only came in May 2009.  Thus, most insurance companies will not pay for it without a fight though Medicare will.  (A clinical trial was not an option because Fred's neurological status was so poor and he did not qualify plus most require the 3-4 week wait between surgery and starting Avastin.)  

Fred continued with every 2 week Avastin and high dose Temodar until the end of July 2009 when a recurrence was detected.  He tried a clinical trial of Axiza but was failing too fast with the tumor galloping along in both sides of his brain.  Fred passed at a palliative care hospital in New York near his grandson September 30, 2009.

Fred had a good time during his stable period.  There were issues between us at times and they were some of the loneliest times I have spent in my life but I don't regret it.  We traveled to Cedars every 6-8 weeks for MRI's and he had the Avastin at a local cancer treatment center near Reno that charged less than Cedars but still a lot.  I found out after months that there were infusion pharmacies that charged a lot less than any cancer center and would do the infusion for less than a third the cost.  (I am fighting the hospitals using the infusion pharmacy cost.  I am really angry about this whole rip off the patient whose family can afford it and is desperate attitude of the hospitals.)  Our insurance has been great about everything else and I can afford the treatment I gave Fred (not just Avastin but travel to LA and aides in the beginning, etc.) even though it will impact my future and I know I am lucky to have these resources.

Was this the best way to treat Fred's tumor? I don't know.  I think so.  I saw others that Cedars failed (or couldn't help.)  Could other treatments done as good a job, who knows.  The stars were aligned for Fred that day in July 2008 when the Reno doctor gave me options and spent time with me and got Fred to a place that kept him alive for the average.  Should more information be available for all and a system of getting patients to tertiary care centers for rare cancers such as GBM be put in place?  You bet.  We the families should not be second guessing the treatment choices we make for our loved ones but the doctors should be making sure they know the options and get the treatment available if humanly possible.  Doctors should know what they do not know and admit it and find out who knows and how to get a patient the proper help.

One incident stands out in my mind that illustrates the craziness of our medical system.  In July 2009, Fred had a grand mal seizure that really signaled the tumor's starting to grow.  He went to the emergency room in Reno again and the doctor there contacted Fred's NO at Cedars who requested an MRI along with a  CAT scan and an adjustment in Fred's seizure meds.  This is the No who had devised the treatment scenario who knew Fred and me really well and walked the ER doc through everything.  On the way to the restroom in the ER, I overheard the ER doc telling the hospitalist or neurologist or pharmacist that the CAT scan showed no change from the prior CAT scan that they had and they weren't going to do an MRI even though the "hotshot" NO in LA wanted one.  At the time I was relieved that there was no change from the prior CAT scan.  Later that night I realized that the CAT scan was from a year earlier when Fred had a great deal of edema which he did not have at his prior MRI in June.  So there really was a change.  Fred had the MRI a few days later after discharge and ultimately when read at Cedars progression was diagnosed.  Three weeks after that the tumor had grown 25%.  Did delaying the MRI cost or shorten Fred's life? Probably not.

This is a cancer with a horrible prognosis.  All most of us want is to know the truth and try and provide the best for our loved one.  Its sad that we have to be doctors too. 

Best to all of you,

Love,

JMB

RE: Temodar not working...try Avastin

by onemorehour on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Thanks for your message, Diana.  I'm so sorry about your loss. I wish you peace and healing. 

Your message came at the right time for me.  My husband has experienced some small regrowth, and we meet with his NO Thursday to see what our next step should be, and I've been wondering all weekend if I should be proactive and insist on treatment if they want to wait... so your words today are things to ponder for me.  All of the "what ifs" are so hard. 

 

RE: Temodar not working...try Avastin

by dianar2 on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. This site has been such a blessing to me as well as the Daily Strength site. GBM is hell. Thank God for all of you, the angels that soften the pain of GBM and other forms of cancer.

-Diana

RE: Temodar not working...try Avastin

by trina_L on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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On 10/13/2009 dianar2 wrote:

Okay, so here I go again with my try Avastin speech. My husband died April 3, 2009 after only 5 and a half months after being diagnosed with a GBM. It was almost 7 cm in size and in his left temp. lobe. Anyhow, the tumor shrunk and after debulking, and Temodar and radiation, and then 4 weeks off, then two doses of higher dose Temodar we lost him anyway.

Why didn't we try Avastin even though it was one of the only things showing a lot of promise with so many people? Because the doctors were doing "standard treatment" and Avastin was a later drug to try.

Well my husband did not get a chance to try it later because when I begged them to try it, they said it was too late and he would not survive it. The tumor was almost gone, but swelling and fluid appeared to be what took my husband. And lo and behold, Avastin lessens fluid and swelling in many people.

So even though Avastin is not a cure all and some people have trouble with it, many are surviving so much longer using it as a first line of defense drug instead of waiting.

If we could start over I would have opted for debulking then avastin and pin point radiation instead of the full radiation. I guess we would have done the lower dose temodar too, but not the heavier dose.

I am not sure if that would have saved my husband, but I know that what we did did not work. If life expectancy for gbm is 13 months, people like my husband are at the low end of that.

Today is one year from the date that my husband was diagnosed with the gbm. My heart goes out to each and every one of you as you face this horrible disease. 

God bless you all.

-Diana


 

 hi diana, you can't second guess yourself and your decisions. you did what you did, we would all  be experts if we could go back, you can't. My husband, dx's in March09, glbm rt. parietal lobe, 52 yrs. old, peak physical cond. We did resect. 98%,  radiation along with temadar for 6 weeks. by week 5, he was cooked, mentally confused, afasia, anxiety ridden, then we did  1 avastin tx.We were in the hospital next day, his poor brain could take it. It has taken 5 months to get him in a good place, we have quaility of life, and enjoy simple pleasures life has to offer. I love him so much, he will never be the same but it is O.K. We are not doing anymore tx. and are with hospice. So if I could go back I would not have done the aggresive tx. Let yourself heal and my heart goes out to you. Only god knows, I don't understand it, but your husband is in a better place and looking down and still loving you everyday.  God bless you

Trina

RE: Temodar not working...try Avastin

by MsRoxy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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Your words, from all of you, give me so much hope and inspiration.  I give to you two words back "Dr. Arenson." 

We live in Colorado and this man is so far out of the box, the box of "standard treatment" that my husband (with a GBM grade IV, inoperable,enormous and ubiquitious)  would be dead by now without Dr. A. 

 He couldn't walk, stand or sit up 6 weeks ago.  He is now finding stability and mobility because Dr. Arenson was not afraid to put him, immediately, on Avastin/CPT11/Temador and daily radiation. 

Some of the doctors in my town 2 hours south of Denver would not even touch him with this particular prescribed protocol.  We were literally told to "go away."  I understand this regime is so strong and potentially lethal, but what alternative to any of us have.  None really.  These tumors do grow 25% every 3 weeks and that is why they say 14 weeks without treatment.  Pretty accurate on the math.  So if someone wants to pull out the stops and try what is available the rest of the world should only pray and thank them for being there to help others. 

God Bless all of you and remember, if we don't try to kill this monster with new medicine, all is in vain.  Roxy in Colorado

RE: Temodar not working...try Avastin

by Gbm_Wife on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 AM

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JMB

 

Contact Dr Al. Musella from the Musella Foundation.  He has helped people fight insurance companies over non payment of Avastin.

 

1100 Peninsula Blvd

Hewlett, NY 11557

Toll Free Phone: 888-295-4740

Direct Phone: 516-295-4740

Fax: 516-295-2870

musella@virtualtrials.com

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