How agressive is my cancer and should I just let things take their course?

The aggressiveness of my prostate cancer is hard to judge and I get little help in determining this from my oncologist. It does not help that I started treatment in Ontario with a RP and then had radiation treatment in the UK where I am living until next year before I return to Nova Scotia next summer. I was diagnosed gleason 3/4 PSA 16 in early 2006. I had ADT for six months then an RP in January 2007. I continued ADT for two more months. All margins clear, no sign of lymph node invasion. However PSA started to rise by the end of 2007 and at the end of 2009 PSA was 0.26 so had thee months ADT then radiation therapy in March/April 2010. Zero PSA at that point but after three months PSA back up to .09. In July 2011 my PSA was up to 0.6 which is twice what it was at the end of 2009.

So how aggressive is this cancer? I am expecting that by my next PSA in Octobe it could be up to 1.0. My British oncologist tells me that there is no point in doing a bone scan until PSA is at least 5.0 as nothing will show. I did have one back in 2006 when first diagnosed but nothing showed. My British oncologist said he would start ADT again until my PSA had reached 4.0 or even 5.0. Is that too late?

It has been five years since I was first diagnosed and I am 67. I am wondewring whether it would not be better to do nothing more and let the PC do its own thing from now on as I do not react very well to ADT. It is so hard to get oncologists to give a frank and honest prognosis.

On Aug 18, 2011 3:49 PM Viking wrote:

The aggressiveness of my prostate cancer is hard to judge and I get little help in determining this from my oncologist. It does not help that I started treatment in Ontario with a RP and then had radiation treatment in the UK where I am living until next year before I return to Nova Scotia next summer. I was diagnosed gleason 3/4 PSA 16 in early 2006. I had ADT for six months then an RP in January 2007. I continued ADT for two more months. All margins clear, no sign of lymph node invasion. However PSA started to rise by the end of 2007 and at the end of 2009 PSA was 0.26 so had thee months ADT then radiation therapy in March/April 2010. Zero PSA at that point but after three months PSA back up to .09. In July 2011 my PSA was up to 0.6 which is twice what it was at the end of 2009.

So how aggressive is this cancer? I am expecting that by my next PSA in Octobe it could be up to 1.0. My British oncologist tells me that there is no point in doing a bone scan until PSA is at least 5.0 as nothing will show. I did have one back in 2006 when first diagnosed but nothing showed. My British oncologist said he would start ADT again until my PSA had reached 4.0 or even 5.0. Is that too late?

It has been five years since I was first diagnosed and I am 67. I am wondewring whether it would not be better to do nothing more and let the PC do its own thing from now on as I do not react very well to ADT. It is so hard to get oncologists to give a frank and honest prognosis.

Viking,

  I am sorry to hear about your current situation. Myself and many others have been in your shoes and worse and have reversed the cancer with alternative medicine. I know I have wrote to you before and you seem to ignore me or think I am some kind of a nut.

Last Wednesday I talked with a gentleman for Montreal that was much worse than you. He has failed hormone treatment and chemotherapy and my approach reversed his cancer by 50% in the first month and feels great and his energy has been restored. However more importantly he feels he is going to beat this now that he has all the tools.

As far as your doctor waiting for your PSA to get greater than 5.0 I just spoke to someone yesterday that had a PSA of 1.2 and the cancer has spread to his bones. If you are interested in my approach I will update you on the 2 additions. My approach has science backing it up.

Good luck

Dan

Thanks for your reply. I have read your message at least twenty times over the past number of months. You seem to answer everybody exactly the same.

Please don't bother me again.

A similar experience has been my fate. Currently on a clinical trial which has helped, but side effects are miserable. Sure enough with rising PSA the sad outcome will eventually show leisons on the bone scan. PSA as indicator goes slowly for a while then starts to zoom out of control and then the real fun starts. Having been through all this crap that only stalls the inevitible, I would think twice before doing the ADT again. If you get to the point of Provenge I would take it as it does help with no side effects and is longer lasting.

On Aug 18, 2011 4:41 PM skidan wrote:

On Aug 18, 2011 3:49 PM Viking wrote:

The aggressiveness of my prostate cancer is hard to judge and I get little help in determining this from my oncologist. It does not help that I started treatment in Ontario with a RP and then had radiation treatment in the UK where I am living until next year before I return to Nova Scotia next summer. I was diagnosed gleason 3/4 PSA 16 in early 2006. I had ADT for six months then an RP in January 2007. I continued ADT for two more months. All margins clear, no sign of lymph node invasion. However PSA started to rise by the end of 2007 and at the end of 2009 PSA was 0.26 so had thee months ADT then radiation therapy in March/April 2010. Zero PSA at that point but after three months PSA back up to .09. In July 2011 my PSA was up to 0.6 which is twice what it was at the end of 2009.

So how aggressive is this cancer? I am expecting that by my next PSA in Octobe it could be up to 1.0. My British oncologist tells me that there is no point in doing a bone scan until PSA is at least 5.0 as nothing will show. I did have one back in 2006 when first diagnosed but nothing showed. My British oncologist said he would start ADT again until my PSA had reached 4.0 or even 5.0. Is that too late?

It has been five years since I was first diagnosed and I am 67. I am wondewring whether it would not be better to do nothing more and let the PC do its own thing from now on as I do not react very well to ADT. It is so hard to get oncologists to give a frank and honest prognosis.

Viking,

  I am sorry to hear about your current situation. Myself and many others have been in your shoes and worse and have reversed the cancer with alternative medicine. I know I have wrote to you before and you seem to ignore me or think I am some kind of a nut.

Last Wednesday I talked with a gentleman for Montreal that was much worse than you. He has failed hormone treatment and chemotherapy and my approach reversed his cancer by 50% in the first month and feels great and his energy has been restored. However more importantly he feels he is going to beat this now that he has all the tools.

As far as your doctor waiting for your PSA to get greater than 5.0 I just spoke to someone yesterday that had a PSA of 1.2 and the cancer has spread to his bones. If you are interested in my approach I will update you on the 2 additions. My approach has science backing it up.

Good luck

Dan

Hi Dan I know it works Mate  As we are both in remission on these holistic treatments were on. I to have told cancer  patients here in Australia about what were on and had the door slammed in my face as well. it seem some cancer patient  wont go near any treatment unless it proscribe by a doctor even though what we are on has  work out really well for both of us, and others,  they seem to be waiting for some research Doctor some were to find some drug some were to help them they dont know there is no such thing as a cure for cancer and there never will be.but there are ways of keeping it under controll.  All I want to say to you Dan is! you have help a lot of people but some time you can lead a horse to water,,,,,,A lot of people have appreciated your help And I'm one of them Take care Dan    

On Aug 18, 2011 4:41 PM skidan wrote:

On Aug 18, 2011 3:49 PM Viking wrote:

The aggressiveness of my prostate cancer is hard to judge and I get little help in determining this from my oncologist. It does not help that I started treatment in Ontario with a RP and then had radiation treatment in the UK where I am living until next year before I return to Nova Scotia next summer. I was diagnosed gleason 3/4 PSA 16 in early 2006. I had ADT for six months then an RP in January 2007. I continued ADT for two more months. All margins clear, no sign of lymph node invasion. However PSA started to rise by the end of 2007 and at the end of 2009 PSA was 0.26 so had thee months ADT then radiation therapy in March/April 2010. Zero PSA at that point but after three months PSA back up to .09. In July 2011 my PSA was up to 0.6 which is twice what it was at the end of 2009.

So how aggressive is this cancer? I am expecting that by my next PSA in Octobe it could be up to 1.0. My British oncologist tells me that there is no point in doing a bone scan until PSA is at least 5.0 as nothing will show. I did have one back in 2006 when first diagnosed but nothing showed. My British oncologist said he would start ADT again until my PSA had reached 4.0 or even 5.0. Is that too late?

It has been five years since I was first diagnosed and I am 67. I am wondewring whether it would not be better to do nothing more and let the PC do its own thing from now on as I do not react very well to ADT. It is so hard to get oncologists to give a frank and honest prognosis.

Viking,

  I am sorry to hear about your current situation. Myself and many others have been in your shoes and worse and have reversed the cancer with alternative medicine. I know I have wrote to you before and you seem to ignore me or think I am some kind of a nut.

Last Wednesday I talked with a gentleman for Montreal that was much worse than you. He has failed hormone treatment and chemotherapy and my approach reversed his cancer by 50% in the first month and feels great and his energy has been restored. However more importantly he feels he is going to beat this now that he has all the tools.

As far as your doctor waiting for your PSA to get greater than 5.0 I just spoke to someone yesterday that had a PSA of 1.2 and the cancer has spread to his bones. If you are interested in my approach I will update you on the 2 additions. My approach has science backing it up.

Good luck

Dan

Hi Dan I know it works Mate  As we are both in remission on these holistic treatments were on. I to have told cancer  patients here in Australia about what were on and had the door slammed in my face as well. it seem some cancer patient  wont go near any treatment unless it proscribe by a doctor even though what we are on has  work out really well for both of us, and others,  they seem to be waiting for some research Doctor some were to find some drug some were to help them they dont know there is no such thing as a cure for cancer and there never will be.but there are ways of keeping it under controll.  All I want to say to you Dan is! you have help a lot of people but some time you can lead a horse to water,,,,,,A lot of people have appreciated your help And I'm one of them Take care Dan    

Viking,

   In my humble opinion, I don't think your PCa is as aggressive as you think.  I was on hormone therapy (HT) for 16 months after my RP.  It was at that time my PSA started to double every two weeks going from .234 to 2.28 in 8 weeks.  Therapies were tried and my PSA at one time was 160.  Needless to say I have bone mets.  I cannot tell you whether you should allow events to take their course or not.  Each case is different and yours could be one of the slow growing cancers or like mine that advanced to this point in three years.  I would seek another opinion rather than go on a feeling.  Acquire as much information as you can to make the most educated decision you can.  It's your life.  Good luck my friend.

Mark

Dear Viking,

Don't let things 'take their course' take charge.  My dad left it all a bit too late when he had the first warning signs way back in 'PSA 5' land.

My dads psa is now sky high, like in the 1000s, he has bone mets, that showed up in the scan like little lit up pin pricks around his body. He had all the hormone therapy and finally it became resistant.  The drs said bone mets although a really painful cancer are slow growing.

When the hormone therapy stopped and his PSA rose, the Drs suggested chemo and radiation.

We had many dark days in the beginning, he had like a disc collapse from lifting a heavy bag into a car.  The disc collapse was from the cancer met in the bone. 

His bone mets became aggressive so the chemo and radiation really ended up being beyond questioning.

He has just finished 5 rounds of chemo and he had a few rounds of radiation to help with pain management BUT for the moment everything is going really well.  He has to take it a bit easier, but he is on holiday at the moment, and still running his own business.

His last scan showed no soft issue invasion, and the chemo/radiation have kept the bone mets in check.

Now his chemo is over he just has zometa every 6 weeks.

His own immunity is being built up by being sensible, fresh veges, fruit but he's not giving up the things he likes now ie cream buns. lol.  Why should he ?

His PSA is still in the 1000s but his drs don't seem caught up with that now.  I wouldn't let things 'take their course', I think you should take charge of the boat. Learn all you can, ask heaps of questions, change Drs until you find one that you relate to.....and don't get caught up in numbers, stay positive and enjoy everything!

all the best

Brone 

On Aug 18, 2011 3:49 PM Viking wrote:

The aggressiveness of my prostate cancer is hard to judge and I get little help in determining this from my oncologist. It does not help that I started treatment in Ontario with a RP and then had radiation treatment in the UK where I am living until next year before I return to Nova Scotia next summer. I was diagnosed gleason 3/4 PSA 16 in early 2006. I had ADT for six months then an RP in January 2007. I continued ADT for two more months. All margins clear, no sign of lymph node invasion. However PSA started to rise by the end of 2007 and at the end of 2009 PSA was 0.26 so had thee months ADT then radiation therapy in March/April 2010. Zero PSA at that point but after three months PSA back up to .09. In July 2011 my PSA was up to 0.6 which is twice what it was at the end of 2009.

So how aggressive is this cancer? I am expecting that by my next PSA in Octobe it could be up to 1.0. My British oncologist tells me that there is no point in doing a bone scan until PSA is at least 5.0 as nothing will show. I did have one back in 2006 when first diagnosed but nothing showed. My British oncologist said he would start ADT again until my PSA had reached 4.0 or even 5.0. Is that too late?

It has been five years since I was first diagnosed and I am 67. I am wondewring whether it would not be better to do nothing more and let the PC do its own thing from now on as I do not react very well to ADT. It is so hard to get oncologists to give a frank and honest prognosis.

I know with mine any sugary food I had will make it worse including  fruit and especialy fruit juice