Ketogenic Diet

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Ketogenic Diet

by Malaika01 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 02:54 PM

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There is a new book out titled Cancer is a metabolic disease which suggests that Gbm can be treated effectively by adding a ketogenic diet as part of treatment .. Has anyone tried this diet or know anyone who has tried it? Malaika Wife of Gbm Survivor Dx Mar12 Recurrence Oct 12

RE: Ketogenic Diet

by veggienft on Sun Nov 25, 2012 05:37 PM

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I haven't tried a ketogenic diet against cancer, and I don't have $111 for Dr. Seyfried's book. Everything about Dr. Seyfreid's work points at a modified ketogenic diet for treating and avoiding cancer.

From the author, Dr. Thomas Seyfried....

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/7/1/7
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.....it remains to be determined if members of our species are willing or motivated enough to adopt the life style changes necessary to prevent cancer.

.....Consequently, energy restricted diets combined with drugs targeting glucose and glutamine can provide a rational strategy for the longer-term management and prevention of most cancers.
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In this article the author acknowledges that glucose and glutamine are the primary obstacles to preventing and eliminating cancer. He also acknowledges that most people on the path to cancer will refuse diets which reduce concentration of these chemicals. As a solution, he recommends restricting calory intake and taking pharmaceuticals which reduce the markers for glucose and glutamine.

The problem? The markers for glucose and glutamine do not measure their transient metabolic effects. The drugs which reduce these markers do little to reduce the transient metabolic effects of glucose and glutamine.

Practically cancer patients will implement calorie restricted diets by cutting back on everything they eat. Since most of these people eat diets concentrated in sugars, glutamates, and the carb-related proteins which elevate glucose, they will continue to produce cancer. The rate will merely slow.

Dr. Seyfried nails the causes of cancer, insulin resistance and glutamates. Then Seyfried says that cancer patients will refuse diets which reduce these factors. He offers a solution based on the people's tolerances.

I agree that "ketogenic diets" help reduce cancer, but they do not go far enough. The definition of a "ketogenic diet" rests on this. Ingest less total sugar than the average carb-adapted person's body needs, then supply the balance with fats. The liver makes up the shortfall by using fats to create more sugar. A few things are wrong with this concept....

1. It produces the same amount of circulating glucose.
2. It ignores the cause of elevated glucose, insulin resistance from ingested carb-related proteins.
3. It ignores the contribution of ingested glutamates.

Modify the standard "ketogenic diet" to eliminate glutamates and insulin mimetic proteins. Then you have a workable anti-cancer diet.

RE: Ketogenic Diet

by Malaika01 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 07:04 PM

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On Nov 25, 2012 5:37 PM veggienft wrote:

I haven't tried a ketogenic diet against cancer, and I don't have $111 for Dr. Seyfried's book. Everything about Dr. Seyfreid's work points at a modified ketogenic diet for treating and avoiding cancer.

From the author, Dr. Thomas Seyfried....

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/7/1/7 "" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/7/1/7 " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/7/1/7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
.....it remains to be determined if members of our species are willing or motivated enough to adopt the life style changes necessary to prevent cancer.

.....Consequently, energy restricted diets combined with drugs targeting glucose and glutamine can provide a rational strategy for the longer-term management and prevention of most cancers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

In this article the author acknowledges that glucose and glutamine are the primary obstacles to preventing and eliminating cancer. He also acknowledges that most people on the path to cancer will refuse diets which reduce concentration of these chemicals. As a solution, he recommends restricting calory intake and taking pharmaceuticals which reduce the markers for glucose and glutamine.

The problem? The markers for glucose and glutamine do not measure their transient metabolic effects. The drugs which reduce these markers do little to reduce the transient metabolic effects of glucose and glutamine.

Practically cancer patients will implement calorie restricted diets by cutting back on everything they eat. Since most of these people eat diets concentrated in sugars, glutamates, and the carb-related proteins which elevate glucose, they will continue to produce cancer. The rate will merely slow.

Dr. Seyfried nails the causes of cancer, insulin resistance and glutamates. Then Seyfried says that cancer patients will refuse diets which reduce these factors. He offers a solution based on the people's tolerances.

I agree that "ketogenic diets" help reduce cancer, but they do not go far enough. The definition of a "ketogenic diet" rests on this. Ingest less total sugar than the average carb-adapted person's body needs, then supply the balance with fats. The liver makes up the shortfall by using fats to create more sugar. A few things are wrong with this concept....

1. It produces the same amount of circulating glucose.
2. It ignores the cause of elevated glucose, insulin resistance from ingested carb-related proteins.
3. It ignores the contribution of ingested glutamates.

Modify the standard "ketogenic diet" to eliminate glutamates and insulin mimetic proteins. Then you have a workable anti-cancer diet.

Thank you for your insight. You obviously know a lot more about the KD than the average person. Perhaps you can share what a modified ketogenic diet would entail. What kind of drugs target glucose and glutamine as Dr. Seyfried does not recommend Metmorfin. Also are you saying that whether or not an individual consumes glucose their body will use fats to create sugar? Last point: How does one eliminate glutamates and insulin mimetic proteins? Thanks again for taking the time to answer and I look forward to your reply.

Best, 

RE: Ketogenic Diet

by veggienft on Mon Nov 26, 2012 01:54 AM

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Malaika01 -Thank you for your insight. You obviously know a lot more about the KD than the average person. Perhaps you can share what a modified ketogenic diet would entail. What kind of drugs target glucose and glutamine as Dr. Seyfried does not recommend Metmorfin. Also are you saying that whether or not an individual consumes glucose their body will use fats to create sugar? Last point: How does one eliminate glutamates and insulin mimetic proteins? Thanks again for taking the time to answer and I look forward to your reply.

Best,
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You're welcome. I posted the diet here a few days ago along with some explanation.....

http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,69182

When the liver uses fat to create glucose, it's called "gluconeogenesis". Virtually everyone in western society today is adapted to carbohydrates. That's why many in the medical community assume that people require sugars from carbohydrates. It's not true. The liver creates glucose in people who are carb adapted. When a person slowly weans from carbohydrates to fat, the person becomes fat adapted. The liver slowly stops making sugar.

That said, cancer avoidance does not necessarily require adaptation to fats. It necessarily requires drastic curtailment of ingested glutamates and insulin mimetic proteins.

In the span of two years two close relatives and a friend of mine fought cancer. I knew and said what to do when they were ill. The decision makers refused. To my sadness, all three died.

The standard western diet is EXTREMELY addictive.

I have no idea what drugs Dr. Seyfried could have been referring to, especially if he does not recommend Metformin. Metformin seems to work on glucose markers. It just doesn't do much along the lines of increasing health or lengthening life. Tissue glycation persists regardless of the Metformin and lowered circulating glucose levels. If you think about it, the sugar has to go somewhere.

Good luck.

RE: Ketogenic Diet

by veggienft on Mon Nov 26, 2012 01:57 AM

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One more thought. The "ketogenic diet" is useful in reducing blood sugar, the effect of insulin resistance. It just fails at eliminating the causes of insulin resistance. THAT's where the standard ketogenic diet fails.

RE: Ketogenic Diet

by Malaika01 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 05:55 PM

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On Nov 26, 2012 1:57 AM veggienft wrote:

One more thought. The "ketogenic diet" is useful in reducing blood sugar, the effect of insulin resistance. It just fails at eliminating the causes of insulin resistance. THAT's where the standard ketogenic diet fails.

Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and knowledge on the KD. It all sounds so complicated. I wish someone would simplify it so it can be incorporated in the treatment of GBM in particular seeing it has been successful in treating epilepsy. We are so desperate to find anything that shows promise at least of slowing progression and are often saddened when nurses recommend eating ice cream and milk shakes to cancer patients. Thanks again for sharing. If you know of a book with KD recipes I would be most grateful. May you continue to be blessed with good health and kindness. 

RE: Ketogenic Diet

by veggienft on Tue Nov 27, 2012 02:39 PM

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The idea behind a ketogenic diet is, ingest the food and drink previously ingested, except limit carbohydrates (starches, legumes, fruits and sweet drinks) to a few grams per day. As you can see I do not advocate ingesting most of these carbs in any quantity, so I would suggest the lower end of the spectrum .....15 or 20 grams. Significantly increase intake of meat and fish. Drastically increase intake of fats.

I'll go out on a limb. Feed your husband as much meat and fat as he wants so he won't go around hungry. I like fatty brisket and bacon. You can search through Dr. Davis' Wheat Belly blog for wheat-free recipes if you like. Most will be in the archives.

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/

Happy keto-eating.

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