CancerCompass message board discussion started by Texascyndyb on 5/2/2007 http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,11782,0.htm Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:00:00 GMT Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:00:00 GMT http://backend.userland.com/rss RSS.NET: http://www.rssdotnet.com/ Our scottie boy Max was diagnosed in March 2006 with TCC.  We're so grateful that he's still doing quite well!!  Piroxicam has worked very well for him and with no negative side effects.  We recently moved from AZ to TX and were so glad he could come with us.  We have a large, fenced back yard and he is SO happy to be out there!  He wasn't too thrilled with the desert....but just loves the green, green grass.  He loves rolling in it, and running through it after the squirrels!   My question:  can anyone offer tips on how they dealt with, or are now dealing with, the incontinence?  I tried the doggie diapers and just couldn't get them on because it freaked him out so badly.  Up to now, it wasn't a huge issue, just alot of clean ups.  For the past few days, however, he's having almost continuous accidents, and the smell is worse.  My husband gave him a bath this morning and within minutes, he smelled again.  It's more sour, or something, than regular urine.We have spoiled Max and his brother Gus, and they have always had run of the house and furniture.  That is now becoming very stressful.  We don't want the furniture ruined.  But we don't want to add to Max' stress either.  ( we won't discuss my stress! :) ) Sorry this is so long.  I know I'm babbling.  Just hope someone has some practical suggestions.  As far as the stress and grief, we're handling that ok for the most part.  Of course, it's easy to say that while he's still with us.  Mostly, I think we're ok because he's been with us so much longer than we thought.  It originally sounded like it would be 2-3 months, so we are blessed!!Thanks for any advice!! Texascyndyb Wed, 02 May 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hi Texas Cindy, I am so happy I found this site.  I have been on the Prostate Cancer/TCC journey in the dark and it is not something that anyone wants to go through alone.  My 12 year old dog Lucky was diagnosed in March.  It sounds like you are doing so well, I would like to hear more about how you are treating Max.  I chose not to do chemo or radiation.  Currently I have him on Demeraxx (similar to Piroxicam) home cooked high protein meals with a little kibble and introducing slowly Blue Green Algae, Acidophyllis, Super Enzymes, Dandelion Root, Marshmallow and Essiac Tea.  Had to take him off the CoQ10 as we believe it created blood in his urine.  Lucky is leaking but not incontinent yet.  However, my neibors 15 year old female lab has trouble with incontenance and I often have her as a guest when they are away.  What I have done with her is  purchase the wee-wee training pads and taped them togehter to make a cover.  I place the cover wherever I know she likes to sleep (my bed of course).  It seems to work out very well.  Can get expensive though.  I believe that PetsMart has a ready made cover but I am not sure how expensive it is.  I prefer to make my own out of the wee-wee pads.   Let me know if you try it and if it works for you.  Lucky sends kissess to Max.  Blessings to all of us going through this struggle. Michele Abbyshap Sat, 12 May 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hi Michele, Thanks for your kind thoughts.  Max continues to do well on the Piroxican after 14 months.  He has lost some weight but still eats well (sometimes not alot, but he's always been that way), loves to play outside and lives for his tennis ball!  The incontinence has been the biggest obstacle so far.  I just returned from taking him to the groomer.  He gave me some pretty disgusted looks in the car.  They had to shave him right down, which I feared.  We kept bathing and bathing him, but you just can't get all of that awful urine smell out of a Scottie's skirt and beard.  I'll just keep him away from mirrors for awhile, lol! We've been experimenting with the baby diapers and wipes.  It takes some adjusting due to the tail, but they are much less expensive - and easier to find - than doggie diapers.  I just cut a hole for his tale.  Do a better job sometimes than others! As far as anything else, we haven't done it.  No fancy diet, just his good old Purina One for senior dogs.  Typical doggie treats and also some handouts from Dad.  He gets his pill with peanut butter, never an issue with that. I hope this helps someone.  I've certainly had - and will have - my down days.  But we're just trying to let him be Max for as long as possible.  The best thing we can do for our furkids going thru this is just to love them!!Best regards,Cyndy Texascyndyb Sat, 19 May 2007 00:00:00 GMT  On 5/12/2007 Abbyshap wrote:Hi Texas Cindy, I am so happy I found this site.  I have been on the Prostate Cancer/TCC journey in the dark and it is not something that anyone wants to go through alone.  My 12 year old dog Lucky was diagnosed in March.  It sounds like you are doing so well, I would like to hear more about how you are treating Max.  I chose not to do chemo or radiation.  Currently I have him on Demeraxx (similar to Piroxicam) home cooked high protein meals with a little kibble and introducing slowly Blue Green Algae, Acidophyllis, Super Enzymes, Dandelion Root, Marshmallow and Essiac Tea.  Had to take him off the CoQ10 as we believe it created blood in his urine.  Lucky is leaking but not incontinent yet.  However, my neibors 15 year old female lab has trouble with incontenance and I often have her as a guest when they are away.  What I have done with her is  purchase the wee-wee training pads and taped them togehter to make a cover.  I place the cover wherever I know she likes to sleep (my bed of course).  It seems to work out very well.  Can get expensive though.  I believe that PetsMart has a ready made cover but I am not sure how expensive it is.  I prefer to make my own out of the wee-wee pads.   Let me know if you try it and if it works for you.  Lucky sends kissess to Max.  Blessings to all of us going through this struggle. MicheleI used to be Texas Stephanie but am now in California with my 13 1/2 year old Scottie Ruby.  She was diagnosed with bladder cancer one year 9 months ago.  I have had her on piroxicam compounded at the compounding pharmacy and a lot of herbs from the holistic vet.  She has done really well and fealt well until more recently.  She started having continence issues in the last 3 weeks.  I just got some test results back form the vet that her kidney levels are elevated and we will have to disscontinue the piroxicam immediately.  I also have her on Carafate for stomach, tramadol for pain, periactin as an appetite stimulant off and on, batril for an antibiotic, Herbs include: hoxsey, mushrooms, akebia moist heat, CoQ10, suber ester c, formula sf734, milk thistle, glucosamine, cranberry tabs, cat's claw for a month switching to pau da' arco for a month, astra 8 and fish oil.  This grouping of herbs has kept her health and energy level high.  I go to one of the pioneers of holistic animal medicine who has been practicing for many years.  Her diet is some canned food mixed with Halshan cooked food which has vegetables and turkey.  It is a high protein diet.  She has been finicky with food so I am adding a small bit of liver which can stimulate appetite and does seam to be working.I am using baby (huggies) diapers and cutting a hole in them; they are much cheaper than the pet diapers and easy to make.  I cut a V in the back and pull out some of the cotton so that it doesn't shed all over my house.  It took about a week for her to get used to them and not feel tortured by them.  The easiest thing to do is to start the use of them at night when it's bedtime.  Now she doesn't mind them at all because she associates them with a treat.  I have spent a small fortune on my little baby but she is worth every penny.  I would tell you what my vet tells me.  They can live for a long time with this and feel healthy.  It is a bloody tumor so be vigilant but not suprised by the blood.  Baytril has worked the best for me at keeping infection at bay after the cranberry stopped working.  They can be on that for a long time.  We are currently trying some experimental stuff with Ruby which looks promising but it is controversial.  I'll keep you posted. Rubysmom Sat, 19 May 2007 00:00:00 GMT  On 5/2/2007 Texascyndyb wrote:Our scottie boy Max was diagnosed in March 2006 with TCC.  We're so grateful that he's still doing quite well!!  Piroxicam has worked very well for him and with no negative side effects.  We recently moved from AZ to TX and were so glad he could come with us.  We have a large, fenced back yard and he is SO happy to be out there!  He wasn't too thrilled with the desert....but just loves the green, green grass.  He loves rolling in it, and running through it after the squirrels!   My question:  can anyone offer tips on how they dealt with, or are now dealing with, the incontinence?  I tried the doggie diapers and just couldn't get them on because it freaked him out so badly.  Up to now, it wasn't a huge issue, just alot of clean ups.  For the past few days, however, he's having almost continuous accidents, and the smell is worse.  My husband gave him a bath this morning and within minutes, he smelled again.  It's more sour, or something, than regular urine.We have spoiled Max and his brother Gus, and they have always had run of the house and furniture.  That is now becoming very stressful.  We don't want the furniture ruined.  But we don't want to add to Max' stress either.  ( we won't discuss my stress! :) ) Sorry this is so long.  I know I'm babbling.  Just hope someone has some practical suggestions.  As far as the stress and grief, we're handling that ok for the most part.  Of course, it's easy to say that while he's still with us.  Mostly, I think we're ok because he's been with us so much longer than we thought.  It originally sounded like it would be 2-3 months, so we are blessed!!Thanks for any advice!!If there isn't a lot of blood in the urine, you may want to try Cranberry capsules in the AM and PM with his food.  That worked for my dog for a long time.  If it smells (and I know exactly what you are talking about) you may want to ask your vet to give you a 14 day supply of Baytril.  That is the best at targeting bladder infection.  It has been the only thing that has worked for my dog with bladder cancer.  Continue the Cranberry indefinitely so that they can help keep the bacteria in the bladder down.  You will from time to time get the infections anyway with the cancer in there.  Don't let them take a urine sample with a needle as they can seed the cancer - you should always remind them of this.  And if they recommend running a pannel on the urine from free flow, it is a waist of your money.  You will always have something growing growing in there because it wasn't taken in a sterile way. Rubysmom Sat, 19 May 2007 00:00:00 GMT My 9 year old miniature schnauzer was diagnosed with TCC in December of 05. I am blessed that he is still with me today. I had the tumor surgically removed once, but it is back again with avengance! After the removal of the tumor, he did develope mestasis on the abdominal wall. I was told this is common with TCC for the tumor to develop elsewhere after surgery. He has been on piroxicam for about 5 months now and I am starting to see him go downhill. His incontinence is starting and I am now starting to see blood in his urine. He has had two urinary tract infections within the last two months and his urine flow is starting to slow down. I feel as if my oncologist is starting to give up to him. I refuse to. He is so full of life, you would never know he is sick. If anyone could please give me suggestions on what I should do to keep the bladder infections under control or slow down the urine in the bladder I would greatly appreciate it! I've read different articles on what to stay away from and what to feed him. I dont know what to believe. Oh, and did I mention that he only has one good functioning kidney? He is on the k/d prescription diet for that and takes is fish oil on a daily basis. Does holistic medicines really work? Please help, anyone!Laurie Lts1028 Tue, 22 May 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hello,  I've popped out here time and again to see what progress is being made for pet owners struggling with TCC.  I joined the discussion out here in it's very very early days  when our 12 year old mixed breed was diagnosed. We were lucky in that we live within 40 minutes of the University of Penn and were able to take advantage of a much more advanced treatment involving stenting once tumor growth completely obstructed flow. The procedure was not invasive in that it was all scope with no incisions at all.  Costly yes, but we went with it knowing that it would give us more time, she was fully functioning, eating well, playing and alert...simply unable to urinate.  We also felt a great deal of comfort knowing that she was one of 11 dogs at the time involved in this particular study, a study that would eventually assist other dogs and even people.  Her case even discussed in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association. Along with the stent she took a daily cocktail of meds, all of which she tolerated very well.It's all still very painful to think about, we lost her in August of 2006, 14 months after they gave her 2-3 weeks...she was TOUGH :)  As far as odor and incontinence goes.....we found that gentle washings/ rinsings using cut up old T-shirts soaked in warm water infused with Witch Hazel did the trick. We did these "mini baths" after each time she went outside.  We also found all diaper's sold in pet stores to be worthless.  Luckily we stumbled upon this site.....http://www.tinkletrousers.com/  These were a little tricky to use with a female dog, as they were designed perfectly for male dogs, but they did work the best and even her surgeon  was impressed with them. The design is the best I've seen to date.  Most diapers in stores assume that all dogs keep their tails striaght up in the air...holding the diaper on...once your dog's tail is down the diaper slips down with it!!  Once the tinkletrouser is on your dog's not pulling it off and it can not slip off.This system uses infant diapers inside as a "liner". Use a slightly larger baby diaper than they suggest and you'll be set!  These are so easy to wipe clean and to wash.  I wish you all the best and that you're pups stay healthy for as long as possible!Hugs, Chris Chrissishelby Wed, 06 Jun 2007 00:00:00 GMT Here's that link again, just in case it didn't work for you either! http://www.tinkletrousers.com Chrissishelby Wed, 06 Jun 2007 00:00:00 GMT  On 5/19/2007 Rubysmom wrote: On 5/12/2007 Abbyshap wrote:Hi Texas Cindy, I am so happy I found this site.  I have been on the Prostate Cancer/TCC journey in the dark and it is not something that anyone wants to go through alone.  My 12 year old dog Lucky was diagnosed in March.  It sounds like you are doing so well, I would like to hear more about how you are treating Max.  I chose not to do chemo or radiation.  Currently I have him on Demeraxx (similar to Piroxicam) home cooked high protein meals with a little kibble and introducing slowly Blue Green Algae, Acidophyllis, Super Enzymes, Dandelion Root, Marshmallow and Essiac Tea.  Had to take him off the CoQ10 as we believe it created blood in his urine.  Lucky is leaking but not incontinent yet.  However, my neibors 15 year old female lab has trouble with incontenance and I often have her as a guest when they are away.  What I have done with her is  purchase the wee-wee training pads and taped them togehter to make a cover.  I place the cover wherever I know she likes to sleep (my bed of course).  It seems to work out very well.  Can get expensive though.  I believe that PetsMart has a ready made cover but I am not sure how expensive it is.  I prefer to make my own out of the wee-wee pads.   Let me know if you try it and if it works for you.  Lucky sends kissess to Max.  Blessings to all of us going through this struggle. MicheleI used to be Texas Stephanie but am now in California with my 13 1/2 year old Scottie Ruby.  She was diagnosed with bladder cancer one year 9 months ago.  I have had her on piroxicam compounded at the compounding pharmacy and a lot of herbs from the holistic vet.  She has done really well and fealt well until more recently.  She started having continence issues in the last 3 weeks.  I just got some test results back form the vet that her kidney levels are elevated and we will have to disscontinue the piroxicam immediately.  I also have her on Carafate for stomach, tramadol for pain, periactin as an appetite stimulant off and on, batril for an antibiotic, Herbs include: hoxsey, mushrooms, akebia moist heat, CoQ10, suber ester c, formula sf734, milk thistle, glucosamine, cranberry tabs, cat's claw for a month switching to pau da' arco for a month, astra 8 and fish oil.  This grouping of herbs has kept her health and energy level high.  I go to one of the pioneers of holistic animal medicine who has been practicing for many years.  Her diet is some canned food mixed with Halshan cooked food which has vegetables and turkey.  It is a high protein diet.  She has been finicky with food so I am adding a small bit of liver which can stimulate appetite and does seam to be working.I am using baby (huggies) diapers and cutting a hole in them; they are much cheaper than the pet diapers and easy to make.  I cut a V in the back and pull out some of the cotton so that it doesn't shed all over my house.  It took about a week for her to get used to them and not feel tortured by them.  The easiest thing to do is to start the use of them at night when it's bedtime.  Now she doesn't mind them at all because she associates them with a treat.  I have spent a small fortune on my little baby but she is worth every penny.  I would tell you what my vet tells me.  They can live for a long time with this and feel healthy.  It is a bloody tumor so be vigilant but not suprised by the blood.  Baytril has worked the best for me at keeping infection at bay after the cranberry stopped working.  They can be on that for a long time.  We are currently trying some experimental stuff with Ruby which looks promising but it is controversial.  I'll keep you posted.Hi Cindy (& everyone else in this rotten boat!)My PBGV, Annie, was diagnosed in March 2005 and put on Piroxicam and much to our great good fortune, has been well all this time. She just turned 12 in April and our luck is turning for the worse--quite suddenly it seems.In the past two weeks she has started to have trouble peeing.  At first she was going out every ten minutes or so it seemed. The vet put her on antibiotics  last week and that helped with her need to go so frequently, but now she is having trouble urinating and has peed in the house five times today and I fear this could be the start of incontinence.What are these cranberry tabs you are talking about and where do you get them?  Is there a particular brand you have been using? Annie weighs 37 pounds, which I imagine is a bit more than Ruby so I would have to adjust her dosage accordingly.Thanks for all your help and my prayers are with you all.Annie's human,MartyPS In my research I've found that sadly both Scottie's and Westie's are quite prone to TCC, do you know of any researcg projects that are going on? I thought I had read that Purdue was doing something that was sponsored by some breeders' organization.    Gentleannie Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hi, I just found this site today. I'm the "Mom" of an 11 year-old Sheltie, Dexter, who was diagnosed with bladder cancer about 2 months ago. Shelties are prone to it along with Scotties and Westies (I didn't know this until 2 months ago). Anyway, she's being treated at Purdue, in central Indiana (we live in Chicago) and they have been wonderful to us. They're supposedly in the forefront of canine bladder cancer research in the world. I don't have any advice about incontinence--just wanted to put in a good word for Purdue. Dexter's about to get a stent because the tumor has completely blocked her urethra. She would've died if I hadn't brought her to Purdue; they opened up her bladder surgically and connected a tube so that her bladder can be emptied (manually). I really thought I was going to lose her when I saw her straining to urinate but not being able to. So it's very heartening to hear from people who have been living with this for a while and the dog still has a good quality of life. I'm very grateful to the folks at Purdue--for me this has been a miracle. Dextermom Wed, 04 Jul 2007 00:00:00 GMT I have not been to this site in some time, I honestly don't know why.  I like to think because I'm busy, but who isn't?  Denial, perhaps?  Max was doing so well, but just yesterday and today we fear we may be getting near the end.  He's gotten slower and slower and sleeping alot, but we thought it was ok as he still seemed happy.  After all, he's an older dude plus has the cancer.  The best way I know to describe him is withdrawn.  He stays in his bed in the sunroom almost all the time.  Yesterday he came out for a piece of Dad's breakfast (typically a BIG part of his daily routine!), but stayed in bed the rest of the day.  I managed to get him to go outside only once.  He would not come into the TV room last night to have a taste of Dad's ice cream, which he usually thinks is the best treat!I put his extra bed in our bedroom last night to see if he would stay close.  Nope - after a little while he went back to the bed in the sunroom.  This is a dog who has always stayed close by us.Oh, and something else.  He's been very "gassy" the past week or so.  And he pooped in the house 2X yesterday.  Could this mean the tumor is now so big it affects his bowels too???This morning, he rejected his piece of Dad's breakfast.  He wouldn't go out, and he barely lifted his head.  He did get up once and drink a little bit.  Now sleeping again.  At one point when I was petting him and talking to him, he gave me a "look".  Now, Max is the king of "looks", so maybe I'm reading something into it.  But my instinct is that he is trying to tell me something.  I hope he's just having a couple of bad days, but don't want to kid myself.  Max deserves better.  I'll keep you posted.  As so many have stated, thank God for this site.  Maybe nothing gets solved and we end up with the same dreaded result, but it's comforting to know we're not alone.  Texascyndyb Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:00:00 GMT  On 7/4/2007 Dextermom wrote:Hi, I just found this site today. I'm the "Mom" of an 11 year-old Sheltie, Dexter, who was diagnosed with bladder cancer about 2 months ago. Shelties are prone to it along with Scotties and Westies (I didn't know this until 2 months ago). Anyway, she's being treated at Purdue, in central Indiana (we live in Chicago) and they have been wonderful to us. They're supposedly in the forefront of canine bladder cancer research in the world. I don't have any advice about incontinence--just wanted to put in a good word for Purdue. Dexter's about to get a stent because the tumor has completely blocked her urethra. She would've died if I hadn't brought her to Purdue; they opened up her bladder surgically and connected a tube so that her bladder can be emptied (manually). I really thought I was going to lose her when I saw her straining to urinate but not being able to. So it's very heartening to hear from people who have been living with this for a while and the dog still has a good quality of life. I'm very grateful to the folks at Purdue--for me this has been a miracle.Hi Dexter's Mom!I have read often on this message board how great the folks are at Purdue--they seem to be doing more studies and know more about canine TCC than any other place out there.My Annie was diagnosed in March of 2005--it was very early on so we have been quite fortunate for two years. Sadly she is just now having trouble urinating and I am all too well aware what that means.  Is the stent different from a catheter ? How does it work? And (forgive me for asking) how long can this work for--indefinitely??? And who is Dexter's doctor? I'm wondering if I can refer my vet to him and see if this procedure could help my Annie.Thank you so much and good luck to you and Dexter.Marty   Gentleannie Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:00:00 GMT I was wondering how Dexter is doing with the stent you were having done this past summer?  My dog was dx. with TCC in early August - has been on piroxicam and change to all natural, no grain/carbs diet since then.  Been tolerating the piroxicam with only occasional tummy upset.  The tumor is continuing to grow - as gone from 6cm, 1cm to now 2 cm since August and is growing narrowly up the urethrea, but not causing blockage yet.  Our vet has offered to inplant a stent that we would then "relieve" her ourselves as needed.  The tumor is long and narrow - the bulk of her bladder is clean and no lymph involvement at this time or other spread per ultrasound.We likely have a couple of more months doing nothing.  Possibly "months" if we do the stent.  Can you  (or anyone who has done the stent procedure) share your experience with this procedure and it's results, challenges, etc.? Thanks so much - all of the information gained on this site has been so helpful to us!    mishkas mom Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:00:00 GMT My vet told me when they start to leak is the best time to put them down because they will be in pain afterward. What can you tell me about that. My dog is in the early stages and still has control of his urine but they told me it wouldn't be long until he will not be able to control the bloody leaks. Angela Netangel334 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:00:00 GMT  On 7/29/2008 Netangel334 wrote:My vet told me when they start to leak is the best time to put them down because they will be in pain afterward. What can you tell me about that. My dog is in the early stages and still has control of his urine but they told me it wouldn't be long until he will not be able to control the bloody leaks. Angela My springer spaniel WILLIE developed TCC ...prostate cancer and bladder cancer.  Diagnosed in Dec 2007, he went on regimen of NSAID Piroxicam (with antacid) daily along with every-3-weeks for chemo (Mitoxantrone) and daily Chloramphemicol (antibiotic).   As of June, prostate reduced from 2.9cm to 2.3 cm.  Bladder wall thickness down to normal range and not sign of tumors.   However, in July prostate started enlarging again...back to 3.2cm ...blood in stool and started urinating into his diaper wrap.  He is now on Baytril, which cleared up blood in stool and started new chemo treatment (don't recall the name just now) as replacement for the Mitoxantrone.   His appetite is still fine.  No major side effects except for soft stool and some strain/difficulty defecating.   Will have ultrastound in another 3 weeks to see if it has reduced size of prostate. pdavis Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:00:00 GMT