CancerCompass message board discussion started by Nannyno on 2/4/2005 http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,1543,0.htm Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:00:00 GMT Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:00:00 GMT http://backend.userland.com/rss RSS.NET: http://www.rssdotnet.com/ I have a Sweet sweet sweet, ten year old Rhodesian Ridgeback named Diva. She is fighting the big fight right now, Tranitional cell carcinoma, in her bladder(4cm x5cm). She was diagnosed a month ago, and is asymtomatic except for bloody urine. She is in no apparent discomfort. I am giving her Piroxicam, an nsai, and have been for one month. Her regular Vet. insists it will see her through the major discomfort down the road...until she can no longer tolerate it. Without an operation, we want to shrink her tumor and slow it down, (irradicate would be BEST) with Graviola. Don't know how much to give a 75 pound girl. Does anyone out there have any experience with giving it to a dog? SO Gratefully Yours, Nannyno Nannyno Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:00:00 GMT Your message apparently stayed in my mind for a month, altho I had no information to share then, I did find a reference this morning, while browsing at www.wellmark.com, under myhealth@wellmark, searching bladder cancer, an article from 4/30/04 from Healthday News , connecting a higher incidence of bladder cancer in Scottish terriers and relating it to use of lawn chemicals. I did not read the whole article, was under a time constraint, but was glad to find something that you may want to follow up on.......good luck....hjtk (message: want to discuss/same diagnosis) Henrietta Fri, 04 Mar 2005 00:00:00 GMT Susan, I hope that Diva is still with you. I'm sorry that I just found your email as I scour the internet for some help. My Westie - Maggie - was diagnosed with TCC in January and we did have a "debulking" performed. The cancer had spread to her urethra and starting to climb to one kidney so they weren't able to get it all. Maggie has been on and off Piroxicam for some time. At 20 pounds, her dose was 2.7mg. We had it specially formulated for her by VetCentric. It is hard on the stomach. Every morning Maggie receives a 10mg Pepcid to eliminate any stomach problems. Even so, she only takes the Piroxicam for two weeks at a time and then we switch to Metacam which is a milder form. We just started her on Prednisone to help with what appeared to be uncontrollable attempts to urinate. It has helped a great deal. She is also taking Tramadol - a mild non-narcotic pain reliever to help with the urge. It's been 4 months and every day is a guess. I don't put a lot of faith in the Piroxicam - as it wasn't made for this problem - but we give it to her with our fingers crossed. I wish you all the best. Hattie0815 Tue, 31 May 2005 00:00:00 GMT Dear Hattie, How my heart aches for you and Maggi, It is such a difficult thing, trying to hit the nail on the head and FIND the right nail. After my last posting I did use Piroxocam on my RR for a period of 5 weeks, then sort of freaked out when I went online and read the studies of Bladder TCC using it, how they all reccomended it but said, as you did, it damages the intestines. Pretty much the studies predicted a six month battle, whether the people in the study allowed their dogs to die naturally or put them to sleep in the end. Sigh. I did investigate the Graviola some more and am VERY THRILLED with my dog's results!! These 50 drops/daily are the only medicine she takes!! I mix the drops in warm water and pour it over her(normal)evening meal of Senior Wellness kibble lamb and rice. She really LIKES the taste (but the smell is rather awful) Who cares! I give it to her once a day, in the evening. For beakfast she has her normal, 1/2 cup of kibble and about a cup of warm oatmeal and skim milk, cooked from scratch by my husband, her normal breafast after their 1/2 hour walk. Every two weeks, as is recommended with an herbal treatment, I give her a weeks' rest and don't use the drops that week. So it's 2 weeks on, one week off. Diva is doing very well! I'd say within 2 weeks her bloody urine completely disappeared from the naked eye. She appears still healthy and energetic and romps around the backyard playfully. We are SOO thankful.She shows no discomfort at this point, 18 weeks later. It was a real crap shoot, as I couln't find anyone out there doing this. Her TCC was not positioned where Maggie's was, I dare say. Her Dec. 20th 2004 ultra sound revealed a 4 cm tumor, long and narrow, cradled along her bladder rim, opposite the trigonal area (which is unusual) and it was spreading laterally in both directions.WE dicided agaist surgery, which was an option.("no garantees, lots of discomfort") Diva is now 7.5 years, and as a Ridgeback has a life expectancy of 8- 12 years. Sniff. Let's face it I'll never be ready to let my girl go, 12-15-or 20 years! This Graviola actually distroys the bad cells and spares the good! The Peruvians have been using it for eons, I guess. Chewing on the bark, smashing the leaves up for everything from tooth aches to tumors! The big pharmaceuticals haven't been able to synthecize it, YET, so it's still an herbal remedy, still available and AFFORDABLE to you and me. Google in "graviola". I found a woman online whose husband had been given very little hope, and after 18 months of graviola, he is quite enrgergtic and only a little tired! My new Vet is quite supportive here on the Cape, has encouraged me do this herbal thing and is ready to support when necessary, with Western medicine. At eighteen dollars a bottle I sure would reccomend this Graviola! I am still using my first bottle. I know you and Maggie traveled a different road, and we all want is for it to STOP, which ever road we try. Tell me how you and Maggie are progressing. Best wishes and many blessings, Susan Nannyno Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:00:00 GMT My Rhodesian Ridgeback is TEN, not 7. I don't know what I was thinking... she is 77 in doggy years, I guess. nannyo/susan Nannyno Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:00:00 GMT If anyone has the time to contact me personally regarding their results with graviola, I would greatly appreciate it. My 11 year old collie has been diagnosed with bladder cancer and I am looking for alternative treatments. Kellysmom Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:00:00 GMT Lori, I am so very sorry to hear about your collie. Our sweet boy, almost 12 years old, was diagnosed with bladder cancer yesterday. He is a soft coated wheaten terrier X husky. We are heartbroken. He has three tumors that cannot be operated on. Have you had any sucess with graviola? Ryles Mom Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:00:00 GMT I'm sorry to hear about your dog too. It seems it's very common for dogs at this age to develop bladder cancer. I have not tried graviola as I have not been able to find anyone out there who has used it other than the one person who posted on this board. At this point, my collie is on Piroxicam, Echinacea, Goldenseal and Flaxseed Oil. It has been one month on Piroxicam. The vet gave her 3-5 months without it, so we shall see. If you find any one else who can give us more info on positive results with graviola, feel free to contact me. Kellysmom Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:00:00 GMT We will be starting our dog on Piroxicam tomorrow. How much and how ofter do you give your dog Echinacea, Goldenseal and Flaxseed oil? Have you seen any side effects from the Piroxicam? Our specialist said to watch for vomiting and bloody stools. He had not heard of graviola and was reluctant to introduce any other kind of medication while using Piroxicam. Our dog is hyper-sensitive to almost any kind of drug, etc. I have to ask, was your dog ever exposed to any kind of yard chemicals (like fertilizer or weed control) or wood floor cleaner with petroleum distillants? Just curious. Could be Ryle's age too, but our specialist said Scottish Terriers when exposed to yard chemicals did get bladder cancer. Ryles Mom Wed, 27 Jul 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Susan, Hopeing your baby is still with you. Tuesday, we found out our sweet boy, Ryle, who will be 12 in September has bladder cancer. We met with a specialist yesterday and we will be starting Piroxicam tomorrow (every other day). Can you only get Graviola online? Our little boy is so sensitive to any kind of medication, and our specialist didn't want to introduce anything else with Piroxicam. We are open to try anything that will make him more confortable and reduce the tumors (the ultrasound showed three). I had also read that giving them vegetable (green, orange and yellow) in their diet 3x a day also made a difference. We are so grieving and only want him to be comfortable. He's been our life and our baby. It's hard to see them in pain. Ryles Mom Wed, 27 Jul 2005 00:00:00 GMT I put ten drops of echinacea and ten drops of goldenseal in her water everytime we give her a fresh bowl of water. This helps to build her immune system. I give her one tablespoon of flaxseed oil at dinner time. This also helps with arthritis. I am now feeding her table food - turkey, fried chicken, mashed potatoes with gravy, and mixed vegetables (peas, carrots, squash). If she doesn't have much time, I'm going to spoil her. If this gives her more time with us, all the better. At this point, she is still eating like a horse. I haven't seen any bloody stool yet nor has she been vomiting. I am also giving her clavamox, an antibiotic to ward off any infection she may get from her kidney not working properly. Since she is getting an antibiotic, I also give her two tablespoons of vanilla yogurt, once a day, which replaces the good bacteria that the antibiotic is killing. She loves the yogurt. I spoke to my vet about all of these things and she didn't have any problem with any of them. My dog has not been exposed to any kind of yard chemicals or wood floor cleaner. If your dog is hypersensitive to drugs, try to speak to a naturopath; maybe they can recommend more herbal or natural treatments that can help. Kellysmom Sat, 30 Jul 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Lori, We took Ryle to a Holistic vet on Friday and started him on "Darwin", a raw meat holistic diet. He loves it! The doctor also put him on a number of different vitamins and Chinese herbs to boost his immune system. We are giving him CO Q10 with a mixture of vegies in his morning meal and dinner. The doctor told us that this cancer, and most cancers feef off carbs. He also suggested cottage cheese ... we had thought of yogurt (which he loves too!) I guess we will try anything as this point, just to make him confortable. We love him so very much. My prayers are with you and your baby ... it's a tough road to take when they are like children to you. Shele Ryles Mom Mon, 01 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT My bearded collie Gandalf might or might not have TCC. We have had four ultrasounds and a biopsy. The results were inconclusive...If he has it they will not operate....He is 12 years old...I have ordered the the goldenseal, echinacea and flaxseed oil. He is 64 pounds...I'm confused on the dose... This is a very scaring time for us...He is in great shape and it seems incomperhesable to think that there is anything wrong with him...Our thoughts are to have him on this regiment and see what happens...If he does have TCC then I guess we will face it head on...But for now I can not put my baby though the invasive programs that the vet suggests...Wish us luck Gandalfsmom Sat, 06 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT I am using tinctures for both echinacea and goldenseal. I am putting 10 drops of each into her water bowl every time I change the water. I give her one tablespoon of flaxseed oil over each meal and two tablespoons of yogurt with each meal since she is also on an antibiotic called Clavamox. Since antibiotics kill all bacteria, the yogurt adds back some of the good bacteria to her system. The vet had her on antibiotics originally since we thought it was just a bladder infection and we decided to keep her on them so she doesn't get any infections since her kidneys are not working properly. We also have her on Piroxicam, which might shrink the tumor; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, so we're taking the chance it will work. But, it also helps a bit with any discomfort she may have from the tumor pressing on her kidneys, etc. My collie is not a candidate for surgery as the tumor is too large and in a rough spot. I am also spoiling her with table food, something we never did before. She's getting turkey with stuffing, mashed potatoes and gravy and sometimes a mixed vegetable. Or she's getting fried chicken. She's loving every minute of the people food. She also has her regular dog food to go along with it. If you have a holistic vet in your area, speak with them too. There are lots of alternatives out there; we just need to be open minded. I wish you the best. Kellysmom Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Pam, What are your dog's symptoms? We thought our dog was healthy, until he started to urinate more than usual. The vet had been treating him for a bladder infection since March of this year. The ultrasound we had done on July 26 showed three tumors. They cannot operate on him because of the location of the tumors. We took him to a holistic vet who put him on an immediate diet change to "raw" food, plus Proxicam and a variety of Chinese herbs and a transfer factor to build up his immune system. The main thing is to stop or slow the growth of the tumors and build their immune system. Diet has a lot to do with it. Carbs feed this particular cancer. Over almost 2 weeks, we have seen a marked change in his energy and his frequency in urination. If you like, I would be happy to give you the name of our vet in Seattle, hoping he can maybe refer you to someone in your area. Plus, I can tell you what Ryle is on for treatment, etc. I would be happy to give you my email address and or/ phone number. We decided not to go the route of any kind of invasive programs. We have also given this whole situation to God and placed it in His hands. We are praying for a miracle, but it's whatever path He wants us to take. My heart is with you through this crisis. It's the toughest thing my husband and I have ever gone through. Ryle's Mom, Shele Ryles Mom Mon, 08 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hello, I'm so glad to find this board. We've been treating our 12 year old lab mix for TCC since 5/20/05. We thought she had a bladder infection for a month and 1/2 prior to that. Piroxicam....I can't stress this enough: If your dog is on this medication get them on Cytotec (misoprostol) right away. Pepcid and other antacids alone won't protect their stomachs. Our Shelby is currently on a coctail of meds throughout the day, but has done great with them so far. She's on piroxicam, cytotec, pepcid, and sucralfate. We've also seen that she does much much better while on an antibiotic. She's on a low dose of baytril now. When she goes off the anitbiotic she gets "blocked up" with the drip drip drip of urine. That's the worst day of our lives seeing her drip and then stop but run to go every 30 seconds. Our vets have told us it's not uncommon for secondary infections to thrive in their urethra as the tumors grow irregularly causing nooks and crannys for bacteria to live. I know there's an issue coming up when Shelby gets a hazy look to her eyes. This has happened once a month now, where we wind up taking her for a catheder to empty her bladdrer and up the dose of antibiotic. Each time we've thought it was her last day and each time she wakes up fine the next day..and we're beyond thankful for that. We've run the emotions from so so sad, to angry, to disbelief that this otherwise heatlhy and energetic dog is ill in one little tube (drives me nuts to think about), and back to sad to think after 12 years she's fighting this terrible illness. Diet!! We've found that carbs are BAD for our girl. She's on a diet of homemade foods now. She's loving this and beyond spoiled with her boiled beef, chicken, lamb, or veal. We add in low carb finely chopped veggies like cabbage, broccoli, spinach, etc. She loves a little shredded cheese ontop. I've also found that warm chicken broth entices her on mornings she's rather not eat right away. Pills in cream cheese go down easier and give her the few extra calories she needs during the day. Gerbers baby meat sticks are low carb and great to hide pills in as well. How this happened....many of the sites I've read say genetics, or flea dips (my dog has never seen a flea dip or collar for that matter). I have ny own theory on this one and it may be totally off, but I'm going with it. We have 2 other doggies and I don't want this to happen to them. I've done a lot of reading on flouride in the water; what it does and what it can cause illness wise...if you figure our dogs only drink tap water...no juices, bottled water, soda...just tap water with flouride. It makes you wonder. We've having a system put on the kitchen sink for about $200 to take out the flouride. Can't hurt us or the doggies, so we're doing it. I hope all of your girls and boys are doing well and that you write back with your stories and thoughts on all of this. Chrissi and Shelby(La La) Chrissishelby Tue, 09 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Chrissi, Our soon to be 12-year-old wheaten mix was diagnosed with TCC 3 weeks ago. I can relate to your emotional roller coaster. We have been there -- are there. Because our dog is sensitive to drugs, we started him on Proxicam every other day. We just had blood and urine work done yesterday, and will consult with the vet on changing to Proxicam every day. I will ask him about Cytotec, as he is on other meds for his stomach. So far he seems to be handling it all in stride. Like you, we have treated him for a bladder infection since March. Makes me angry to think they couldn't have found this sooner. You are right about CARBS! Ryle is on a raw food diet with some veggies ... he loves broccoli now, which is a good thing. We have always given our animals tap water with a purification/ filtering system. I don't think it takes out fluoride however. I have read other articles about fluoride poisoning OUR bodies. I can only trace back what we have given Ryle over the years and what he has been exposed to -- carpet cleaners, wood floor cleaners, other household chemicals -- not sure. My husband has used roundup weed killer in the yard. Our dogs noses are so very sensitive, makes you wonder -- even when these chemicals aren't present to the naked eye, our dogs still smell them. Just a thought. My thoughts are with you and Shelby. Ryles Mom Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Shele, The thing we've found to be true is: we know are dog. Just like you know you're dog. We're lucky in that our vet and the emergency vet center we use trust that we know are dog and what signs and symptoms happen when and why. If I ask for an antibiotic they give it to us, I guess they figure at this point it really can't hurt anything. I think some vets or owners may have seen the last 2 "blockage" episodes we saw as the end for their pet, but I just knew that each time the atibiotic stopped she got blocked up. The vets all listened to that, thankfully. And each time she bounced back within a day, now she's on them for good at a lower dose and if she becomes resistant to one there's another we can try. I won't put her through chemo or a stint or a urine bag (can't think of the technical word for that one). Our goal is to make her happy and comfortable for as long as we can. As long as she wants to play ball, walk outside and eat her homemade chow, I'll do what it takes. It's an aggressive cancer, but my vet is really amazed at how well Shelby's done so far and how this Proxicam is working. A few years back this was not possible and a few weeks was all people were told afer diagnosis. About the cytotec... Shelby was on 10 mg of proxicam originally at diagnosis and then within a week we special ordered it at 7 mg from a pharmacy. After a blockage episode we thought we'd try the higher dose of piroxicam again (we really thought we were at the last effort point). She's been on the higher dose each day now for a month. Without the cytotec that would not be possible. And if we have to we can go back to the 7mg. When we first brought her home in May she was on pepcid and sulcrafate alone and after only 7 days of the proxicam her stools got dark. I found a website online that stressed the importance of the cytotec and called the emergency vet center immediatly. Since then her stools have been very normal. It's taken away that one anxiety of seeing dark or tary stools (we still check, but it's been just fine). I feel for everything that you and everyone is going through, it's horrible. But we're lucky in that these drugs and herbal items can prolong a quality of life for our pets and give us all a little extra time to spoil and love them. Let me know what your vet says about the cytotec. (The one vet who perscribed the cytotec said not to handle it if you're pregnant. It's can cause uterine contractions and some other things when taken orally. She said it probaly wouldn't do anything just by handling alone but she didn't want to take any chances, so she put that out there. Just wanted anyone else to be aware as well, and the drug store info packets go further into all of that.) ~Chrissi & Shelby(LaLa) Chrissishelby Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Chrissi, Thanks for responding. It's so good to talk to someone else going through the same thing we are. It's difficult to get any information on the internet. My husband and I are of the same mindset you are. We will not do any invasive procedues or chemo on Ryle. He will be 12 September 10, and we just want to make his life as comfortable as possible. Like you, we trust our own insticts. We do know our own dogs, and how they act/react. We are working with our main vet and a holistic vet and a cancer specialist. Each one has listened to us and in turn, has given us good advice. Each dog is different. We had a pharmacy mix the Proxicam for Ryle according to his weight. We watch Ryle very closely to make sure he is urinating and that his stools are normal. So far, they are. We just have to take it a day at a time. Shele and Ryle Ryles Mom Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Shele, I'll check the board regularly, it is really good to have others to talk to. What is it about "12"? We took Shelby to the first emergency vet center in May, on her 12th birthday (that stunk!). This has been really hard on me becuase Shelby is my first pet, my girl, my responsibility...we've been through a lot togther! My first family pet was a sheltie mix who was with us for 19 years. Yes, 19 years! So in my head a 12 year old dog is really very young, at 12 our sheltie was still a puppy! I'm glad Ryle is doing well on his current treatment and that he has such good care. Let me know how you're all doing and if you find anything else in your online reasearch...I will as well. ~Chrissi & Shelby (LaLa) Chrissishelby Thu, 11 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Chrissi, I'm so glad to have you to communicate with. Ryle is our second dog. Our first dog, Otis, was a shelter rescue and he was hit by a car in front of our house. We thought we would never recover, but a littler over a month after his death, we found Ryle is a pet store -- just a 8 week old precious little thing. We adore him -- he's our life. Can't believe it's been 12 years. My first family pet was a scruffy terrier mix we brough back from Germany. She lived 16 years, so I know what you mean about 12 not being old. Some days Ryle still acts very young and is healthy except for this nasty cancer. We are waiting for our cancer vet to give us a call today and see where we are in Ryle's meds. Here is my email address if you would like to contact me without going through this chat room. shele.o'hollaren@craneaerospace.com I would love someone to talk to .... this is the hardest thing we have gone through in our lives. Ryle is our life and it's so hard on my husband, as Ryle is his hiking buddy and they are bonded like glue. Hope to hear from you. Shele and Ryle Ryles Mom Thu, 11 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Shele... Gandalf was diagnosed last Wednesday with TCC...It was horrible for both my husband and myself....He is so healthly... I put him on both Echinacea goldenseal and flaxseed oil... I ordered graviola but it's backordered... He's on piroxicam and cytotec. He has always had a great diet since I am a veggie and fruit lover...My husband has started cooking him chicken.. Which he is very excited about.. NO more carbs...lots of water and love... How am I doing???? I have been crying for five days...I love him and can't stand to think that he has to go though this...I promished him 12 years ago when I adopted him that I would give him the best always....He doesn't know he's sick...AND WE'RE NOT TELLING HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!If you or anyone else can give me any more advise please...Thank you all Gandalfs Mom Pam Gandalfsmom Sat, 13 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Pam, My heart aches for you and everyone else who has to watch their babies go through this horrible, horrible disease. I'm reading your note at work today, so I don't have access to the names of the meds we have Ryle on. I do know the raw food diet has made a difference in his stamina. We took Ryle to a Holistic veterinarian, Dr. Seigler, who took him off ALL carbs -- that means, off ALL process dog foods. We live the Seattle and have access to a couple of local raw food companies. You can look online for one close to you. Some to look for by name would be Raw Advantage, Pepperdogz, FarMore Raw diet foods, Darwin. We have Ryle on Darwin (it's a company in Seattle.) You can look up their information on http www.darwinspet.com. Here is a generic site for raw food ...http:// www.onlynaturalpet.com/Natural_Raw_Dog_Food_s/ 33.htm. We give Ryle Proxicam every other day. Our holistic vet didn't want to put him on Cytotec -- instead we have him on natural herbs for his colon. I'll get the names and amounts and let you know. Keep in mind that every dog is different, just like every person with cancer is different. The Proxicam has helped with his frequency of urination. I was trying to find information about Graviola, but I couldn't find any animal information. Our Holistic vet said it couldn't hurt, but didn't give us any and didn't know much about it for treating this kind of cancer. We have Ryle on Tramaleen (I think) -- it's a mild pain pill, all natural, we take it. Another pill we have him on is Nordic Cod Liver Oil, not flaxoil. We break open the pill and put it into his raw food. It's VERY important that you keep Gandalf's immune system going and build it up to fight the cancer. You should check for a Holistic vet in your area and get a consultation from them. I think a healthy balance between the Holistic vet and a western vet can really make a good combination. Ryle's our baby, our only dog, and we love him intensely. We try not to let him know we are worried and take him swimming and hiking (his favorite things to do). We really haven't changed his routine so he doesn't get stressed. It's really important that you do that...keep on with things the way they have always been for him. Here is our email address at home...or my work email... shele.o'hollaren@craneaerospace.com. Email us and we can give you our phone number and please call anytime if you just want to chat. This is so rough, sometimes it just takes a friendly voice or someone who is going through the same thing to understand how you are feeling. I am so very sorry. I know, we still cry a lot. Shele (Ryle's Mom) Ryles Mom Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Pam, Here are the medications that our Holistic vet has Ryle on: Transfer Factor Advanced Formula, Stasis in the Lower Palace (Chinese Herbs), Curcumin 97 (regulates cellular inflamation), CAS Options (immune antioxident) and Piroxicam. We also have him on vitamins we buy from the health food store: Co-Q10 (60mg twice a day), Slippery Elm (twice a day), Marshmellow (480mg herb twice a day), Nordic Naturals Omega 3 Fish Oil (twice a day), plus the raw meat diet and we add a Seameal Mineral nd Vitamin supplement from a company called Solid Gold (Ryle has been on this for most of his life). The Slippery Elm and the Marshmellow are for his stomach in lieu of Cytotec. Again, I would suggest finding a Holistic vet in your area and get their opinion. It's tough. It's a guessing game with cancer .. no one really knows or has an answer. We are just trying to give him the best days possible and love him. Hope this helps ... please feel free to contact me anytime. Shele and Ryle B. Ryles Mom Tue, 16 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT My 13 yr old scotty has had a "probably" diagnosis of TCC. Started in June with what I thought was a urinary infection which responded for a short time to antiboitic baytril. Again the urinating problem recurred but this time with blood. Xrays did not show any stones. Vet said ultrasound and possible biopsy could be done but a cystocopy would be best. He put her on a stonger antibiotic (can't remember the name as I am at work). I opted not to have the ultrasound or cystoscopy because in the end she is too old for any surgery and it seems to be a mute point. I did have a V-BTA test which came back positive. She went on Piroxcam on Friday and by Sunday the excessive urinating (and accidents) stopped. I really don't know what to do. I feel guilty not having more tests run, but as I've said surgery would be too hard on her.(She had surgery in March of this year for a type of melanoma on her foot (3 pea size growths) and it was VERY hard on her.) Seems like I just can't stop crying because she doesn't even act sick. Guess I just wanted to share my pain. Thanks for listening, Karen Kacees Mom Wed, 17 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT My dog has just been diagnosed with the beginning stages of bladder cancer(4 mm x 5 mm). My vet told me she can't help me because she and her colleagues have never come across this type of cancer in their clinic before. Can someone recommend a vet or better yet, a vet oncologist, with this kind of experience in Toronto, Canada? At the same time, can someone recommend an holistic vet in the west end of the city who can help my dog re: supplements and diet? Thanks in advance, Pip Pip14 Thu, 18 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT http://www.pets4life.com/index.php?p=research/ hvet Hi Pip, Above is a website link to a pets4life -- listing all the holistic vets registered on their site. There are a couple in Toronto. Take a look. Our dog is doing better on his holistic supplements and Piroxicam and raw food. Get another opinion from another vet. This is not a common cancer, but there are things you can do for your dog. Hope this helps. Best wishes. Shele and Ryle B. Ryles Mom Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Thanks for the info. - I 've made an appt. with an holistic vet for the end of Aug. Surgery, chemo and radiation therapy are not options. Therefore, going with medical therapy, perhaps Piroxicam. In the meantime, am eagerly seeking info. re: supplements and diet. Poochie is a 14 yr.old Bichon Frisé, 12 lbs., stage 1 kidney disease, stage 1 heart murmur, with a collapsed trachea (on a bronchidilator, Theophylline, 100 mg/day). He's had 6 teeth extractions so raw bones and such are out. Currently on 125 mg/day of Cipro (antibiotic) for 2 weeks for an urinary tract infection (1st time ever). His diet consists of a cup of Wellness Senior kibbles mixed with homemade food - cooked extra lean ground chicken/turkey/beef, shredded cabbage and cabbage. Any comments or suggestions? Thanks, Pip Pip14 Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Your holistic vet will probably put Poochi on a good program of vitamins and such. From what I've read about TCC, most all the dogs are put on Piroxicam. It's helped our dog with his need for frequent urination. We are not sure what it is doing, if anything, for the actual cancer tumors. But we continue to hope. Ask your vet when you have your appointment, but we were told that kibble is not good. The carbs/sugars in dry dog food is bad for TCC. Our dog was taken off his kibble completely and put on raw dog food. Our vet suggested cottage cheese, broccoli and any of the vegetable that help with the immune system. Sounds like you are on the right path with the chicken/turkey and beef. If I can be of any help, please let me know. This is all new to me and we are learning as we go. Shele and Ryle B. Ryles Mom Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi, I'm here because of my 8 year old Schipperke, Iris. She has been diagnosed with TCC in the bladder and has nodes on her liver and spleen. Like the rest of you, we are shocked. Since she is so well advanced we have decided against surgery. She was started on Piroxicam and pepcid for 2 weeks but started having stomach problems and has been off the Piroxicam for 3 days to let her stomach heal. We are going to start back with Cytotec for a couple of days and then try the Piroxicam one more time. My fear is her liver, and if she can handle all of this. I noticed you have Shelby on cytotec and pepcid. Do they work in different ways? What kind of doses are you using for what she weighs and how often? Iris is 21 pounds and had been taking 3.3 mgs of the piroxicam and 10mgs of pepcid. She was getting both once a day. My vet is not sure on the dosing of Cytotec and is trying to get more info on it. I just pray the Piroxicam will agree with her the second time around. It has really helped to clear up the blood in the urine. She is also being checked for bladder infections, don't have the results back yet. We have Iris on a home cooked diet with several supplements. We take it one day at a time and try to enjoy each one to it's fullest, but sometimes it's so hard. Hope all is well with your babies. It's nice to know there are others that understand. Iriss Mom Mon, 22 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hello, I fully understand all the feelings your're going through right now. Wondering if you should stop the meds, alter the meds, watching stools and urine like a crazy person hoping for the best and dreading the worst. It's a mentally draining time and you can drive yourself nuts. Our vet was really adamant about keeping Shelby on the piroxicam once she started. She did have "bad" stools once in the beginning; that's when I did online research and found Cytotec. Shelby is on a cocktail of various meds all serving different purposes. I worry about her liver, kidneys, etc as well. But I had to tell myself that, as much as I hate it, she has a highly aggressive cancer and we're managing it with meds alone, so some things may be compromised so that she has as many happy days as we can give her. Shelby was getting "blocked up" once a month, needing a cathader to relieve her bladder. Each time we tweaked her antibiotics, as secondary infections are very very common with this cancer. The bacteria thrive in the nooks and crannies the tumor creates, per the Clinics Vet. These don't always show up on "cultures" from what we've been told. Many websites created by onwers who have gone through this make mention that their dogs were always on an antibiotic. When shelby stopped the antibiotics she got worse, on them she's been good. We've worked with both our family vet and an emergency clinic in our area since May. Shelby is 50 pounds. Her weight had been consistent during this time, she eats a homemade low carb diet. And eats very well. She hates to eat in the a.m. and always has. We lure her in with egg beaters and cheese for a fast morning meal so that she can take her meds. Here is her med breakdown. Piroxicam: 10 mg. Once daily. This is a high dose and should be 7mg. At one point we thought she was at the end and we upped the dose with the Clinic in a last ditch effort. It worked and she's been fine with the higher dose. Misoprostol (cytotec): 100 mcg. Originally at half a pill 3 times a day. When Piroxicam was upped so was this to one full pill 3 times a day. If her stools get runny we do a full, then half, then full for a few days. Sucralfate: 1gm tablets. one tab every six hours (4 a day) Pepcid: 10 mg pill. twice daily Clavamox: 250 mg tablets. 3 times daily. I think this is a high dose as well, but 2 weeks ago she stopped doing well on Baytril and this was another "let's give it a shot" moments. Bethanechal: 10mg. I think I spelled that right. This was part of the "let's give it a shot" moment 2 weeks ago. With getting blocked up our family vet thought that Shelby's tumor may be pressing on the nerves at the bladder. I'm not sure exactly, but he said that this med works for cats and it was all he could think of. Shelby now takes 1 tablet 2 times a day. We're never sure what is getting her to pee like a champ, but she is peeing well.... so the meds all stay! I must say that Shelby has ALWAYS had an iron stomach. When I still lived at home my mom called her my shark. You know how when they open up a shark they find all that crazy garbage they eat.... Shelby always managed to get into and eat anything without too many issues. I'm grateful for her tough constitution, as I think it's given us so much more time with her. do well with your I hope you find this useful and that your little girl repsonds well to her treatment. Chrissi & Shelby Chrissishelby Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Thanks for all the information. It really helps. Iris started the Cytotec today and will start back in with the Piroxicam in a couple of days. The vet is having me give her 1/4 to 1/2 pill of the cytotec 3 times a day. From what your doing, since Iris is only 21 pounds, the 1/4 sounds about right. She also started on Baytril this morning for a bladder infection. It sounds like we should expect more of this. I am very anxious to get Iris back on the piroxicam. She is getting blood back in her urine again. I feel like a nut case following her around but you do what you have to. Do you think the pepcid you have Shelby on is necessary along with the cytotec? My vet didn't seem to think I needed to give both but like I said, she is new to this cancer. I really want to make sure she stays on the Piroxicam this time so maybe that would help. Iris has an iron stomach as well so I was really surprised when she started having problems with the piroxicam. I'm hoping the baytril will make her a bit more comfortable. Thanks again for all the help and keep us updated on how things are going. Joyce and Iris Iriss Mom Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT You and others have been so helpful to me. Bailey was diagnosed with TCC on August 10th, and unfortunately, it is advanced. She weighs 16 lbs., and, I think, has maintained her weight since the diagnosis. I have her on Piroxicam every other day, Pepcid every day, her antibiotic in the evening of the day she gets Piroxicam, and twice on the opposite days. I also have Bailey on herbal support from Robert McDowell in Australia (TCC Support and Maritime Pine Bark). She gets Cod liver oil mixed with her food some, too. I have read about the need for catheterization, but don't know how I will know when she is "backed up". (I have multiple dogs, and work outside the home.) I have been watching her urinate as much as possible, which she seems to be doing o.k. for the most part. She has been breathing hard today, though, and I wonder if that means she needs to be checked. If anyone has experience with this, I would appreciate the help. Also, I am wondering if she is feeling crummy because I only have her on Pepcid. I have tried twice to give her Carafate, but she doesn't take too kindly to the syringe in her mouth. I was told to give it in a slurry, then wait for 2 hours before giving her any other food or pills. Has anyone had better experiences with Cytotec? (I know it has more side effects.) Otherwise, it seems as though I have had a similar reaction to everyone else...I have cried for two weeks straight! Bailey and the rest of my brood are 15, 16 and 14. I never dreamed they would live this long, but that doesn't make what I am now going through any easier. Thanks for all the help! Paige and Bailey Baileys Mom Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Joyce, Honestly, I'm not sure if the pepcid is necessary with the cytotec. It may fall into that "whatever helps" mentality. Both my vet and the vets at the emergency clinic said to keep her on it with the cytotec. Shelby's stools are great, she eats like a champ and she's been with us longer than all the doctors expected. So something in the med cocktail and her care is working! :-) It's tough to make all of these decissions, I know that too well. We can only do the best we can with the information we have. That's why I was glad to find this and other websites. Keep us posted Chrissishelby Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT This is a nightmare....I always run around checking Gandalf's urine and feeling great when its clear..This morning it was bloody..My heart fell..I don't want to over medicated him. He has been doing so great.. This is hard to know what to do..... I too have been crying all day....Our poor babies... Gandalfs Mom Pam Gandalfsmom Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT I know how you feel. It makes me sick when I see the blood. Is Gandalf still on the piroxicam? When I had to take Iris off for a few days the blood came right back. She started back up with the piroxicam last night so I am hoping it will clear again. It is so hard to see this happen to our babies. Just know we are all thinking of your guy and wishing the best for all of you. These are very tough times. Joyce and Iris Iriss Mom Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Joyce, I think I had a small breakdown yesterday..He's still on piroxicam and I put him back on his clavamox last night...He feels great. Though it's 95 degrees here... I'm the one who is having a bad time...I really am a mess...I love going to this site...thanks for all your support Gandalf's Mom Pam Gandalfsmom Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT How often do all of you test your dogs for bladder infections? Do you keep them on antibiotics all the time? Do you always do a culture on it? How is it collected? Iris had her urine checked last week but it took 4 days to get back since it was being cultured. I collected it and brought it in. During this time she had no antibiotics and she had a big infection. The vet wanted to make sure she used the right drug so we had to wait until the results were in. The doctor wants to check her again in 2 weeks but this time wants to use an ultrasound guided needle aspirate to get a cleaner sample. Does anyone else have this done to their dogs? I really don't want to put Iris through anymore than necessary. I also worry about those 4 days waiting without antibiotics. Joyce and Iris Iriss Mom Sat, 27 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi - I just want to thank all of you for posting your information on this website. Earlier this week my dog (actually he is more like my child) was diagnosed with Tcc and I have been unable to function since receiving the news. After reading everyone's stories and advice I feel a new sense of hope that we can prolong Haberdash's time while maintaining his quality of life. Thank you Thank you Thank you. And if I find any beneficial info. that is worth sharing, I will def. post it for all to see. Dhaberdash Sat, 27 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Joyce, Gandalf gets bladder infections about every 5 weeks...We keep his calvimox handy and at the first sign of an infection we give it to him.. It's a 14 day dosage... His first infection started Dec.17th... This last dosage will be his 5th round...I was afraid of too much medication but he seems happy so what the hell....We did the sonagram and he was down for about four days...I don't really know if it was worth it..Sometimes I think we know way too much info on our babies..Gandalf has no idea, so when I'm upset,he doesn't understand...Other people whose doggies don't have TCC tell me I should be happy because "You know he is 13 years old"....Yeah I'm elated... I don't care if he's 45 years old this whole thing sinks!!!!!!!!! Gandalfs Mom Pam Gandalfsmom Sat, 27 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Greetings My beloved beardie of nearly 15 years has just been diagnosed with bladder cancer. We have decided not to allow surgery. She is too old now but of course we don't want to loose her or allow her to suffer. Your comments on Graviola were very interesting. Where can I buy some? I have looked on the web but only found it in tea or capsules. You mentioned drops. I would appreciate any help - I want her to have the best quality time possible. Thank you Dogtartan - Cairnbell Bearded Collies. Dogtartan Sun, 28 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT I am so sorry to learn of your Collie's Tcc. It IS such heatbreaking news! I have some GOOD news! You asked about the Graviola drops...which I have given my Rhodesian Ridgeback since March 4th with great results!! I have bought them online through this site: www.allvita.net Graviola is explained below.I copied and pasted it from the site so others could see it too. It is an ALTERNATIVE medicine, as are all herbs, and it is an herb. I wouldn't recommend using both herbs and western medicine, as it's costly and probably redundant in most cases. We give our 75 pound RR 50 drops a day in 3/4 cup of warm water over her kibble.Two weeks on, one week off..no graviola the third week. After reading about all the carb- causing carcinogens, I should switch her back to raw food. After NO other medicine since March but these drops, I must tell you her urine is still clear and she appears healthy and happy.Today is August 28th. She has a big walk every day (she'll be 11 in early November) On her 10th birthday we discovered the dreaded bloody urine and finally had the diagnosis 5 days before Christmas...yah! Anyway, we are Very VERY pleased with her results. I might add that for the first 5 weeks we did have her on Peroxicam but I read the studies online and decided it was not for us..maybe later...this sounded like it was worth a try,our Vet is amazed... read on... Graviola Spagyric Extract -It's been called a miracle tree. Indigenous peoples from the Amazon jungle have used the bark, leaves, roots, flowers, fruit, and seed from the graviola tree for centuries to treat heart disease, asthma, liver prob-lems, and arthritis. Scientists from North America learned of the legendary healing tree and, through dozens of in vitro tests, discovered its ability to kill malignant cells of 12 different types of cancer, including ovarian, colon, breast, prostate, lung, liver, cervical, lymphoma, and pancreatic cancer. Laboratory research showed it to be 10,000 times stronger in killing colon cancer cells than Adriamycin, a commonly used chemotherapy drug. And Graviola, unlike chemotherapy, can kill cancer cells without harming healthy cells. In Spagyric processing, the raw materials are initially soaked in natural solutions that allow access to otherwise insoluble elements. Next, the plant fiber is separated and reduced to alkaline ash. This whole process takes weeks and transforms each component. Then, the ash and the liquids are re-combined. Nothing is wasted. The finished product retains the plant's original constitution, but with much more strength, focus, absorbability and healing potential than a raw plant provides. Nannyno Sun, 28 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Greetings, Thnx for prompt reply. Glad to hear Diva is doing well, long may it continue. I managed to order some graviola. You mentioned putting Pipa on a raw diet. Can you tell me something about what sort of food you mean please? I know about raw chicken wings but she is just not keen at all. Your comments would be appreciated. Regards, Dogtartan Dogtartan Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Where did you buy the Graviola? I found some capsules in a local Denver pharmacy that had Graviola in them, with something else. I declined to use them, though, when I couldn't find a suitable dosing amount/regimen for a 15 lb. dog. I am, howver, using Robert McDowell's (herbalist from Australia) Maritime Pine Bark Extract, and TCC Support (extract from other herbs, such as dandelion, chamomile, etc.) I found his info when I googled "canine bladder cancer). Bailey is also taking Piroxicam, and, after a horrible first weekend, has been doing quite well for nearly three weeks. Seems to have more energy, and is quite playful. Also, where did you get your dosing recommendation? Thanks for your help. This is the first message board I have ever posted on, and all of you have been terrific help. Paige and Bailey Baileys Mom Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Greetings I bought Graviola (or at least I have ordered and paid for it, not yet recvd) from the site recommended to me by Nannyno, message 42. www.allvita.net. I have checked with my vet to see if it is safe to take with PLT and Propalin but the manufacturers of these drugs do not know the answer and advise proceed with caution. Is anyone else using conventional medicine in conjunction with Graviola?? Pipa is on PLT for arthritis and the propalin for weakness of the bladder sphincter. Neither of which she can do without. This is the first time I have ever used a message board too and have found it all very helpful. All the best everyone and thanks, Dogtartan Dogtartan Tue, 30 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT We had a checkup with our Holistic vet last night, and I asked him about Graviola with Piroxicam and the other herbs we have Ryle on. He didn't know, but he didn't think there would be a problem using it with Piroxicam. I asked him about taking our dog off Piroxicam and going all natural. He didn't think that was a good idea and wanted us to continue with Piroxicam. Does anyone else know anything about Graviola and Piroxicam? thanks much, Ryle's Mom, Shele Ryles Mom Tue, 30 Aug 2005 00:00:00 GMT Good morning Lynn, My beloved 13 year old beardie Gandalf was diagnosed with bladder cancer July 14th...It was horrible.. I put him on graviola,flaxseed oil,echinacea,goldenseal, piroxicam...Last Wednesday he was re-checked...Not only has the cancer not grown,He is in better shape than two months ago...Our Vet was soooo excited and told us what ever we are doing to stay with it...We cried all day....If we have him six more months or six more years,he is happy and healthy and runny around like the crazy beardie we know and love!!!!Please listen to all this wonderful advice on the message board. Our beardies deserve the best. They have given us nothing less.... Gandalf's Elated Mom Pam Gandalfsmom Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Greetings Pam Thank you for your reply. Gives me great hope for Pipa. I have had the order for the Graviola confirmed and hope to start it as soon as it arrives. A friend has also recommend a good organic diet. I will give it all a go. As you say our beardies (and all other animals) deserve our best efforts. Long may Gandalf play happily. With hope, Lynn Dogtartan Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT My 9 year old golden retriever was diagnosed with bladder cancer in April. Needless to say, I did nothing but cry for weeks. He is now more spoiled than ever, as he should be. But I was curious when you say your dog is "blocked up." How can you tell? Chipper is on Piroxicam (10 mg.) in the morning (he's 83 pounds). Before he gets that, I give him 4 Pepcid AC and Regelan for his stomach. I'm going to ask the vet about Cytotec. It sounds great. With half an hour after he eats, he starts panting and wanting to go out every 15 minutes or less. He pees okay the first time out in the morning, but not as good as it used to be. Then after a while, nothing comes out or maybe a fewt drops of blood. Also, in the first few hours after Piroxicam, we notice dribbles of blood on the tile floor here and there. As the day wears on, it gets less and less. He never cries -- he even plays all morning with his stuffed animals and his bones. You'd never know anything is wrong with him. Also, he's on Science Diet Prescription I/D dog food (half canned, half dry) with baked chicken 4 times a day. I put his medications (now he's on Cirpo -- done the Baytrill/Clavomax route) in his food. I'm curious as to the signs when things are getting much worse and how to know when he's blocked. He's such a good boy and loves everyone. I keep asking myself, "Why him." I'm really feeling guilty because I feel that I'm part of the cause of his cancer. We lived on a golf course and he used to love to run and play ball "after hours." Now I find out that golf courses use heavy duty pesticides and fertilizers. I'm just sick about it. And carbs -- guess we'd better check into this a little more closely. How about green beans carrots? He loves those. Any help would be grateful. Susan (Chipper's mom) Chippers Mom Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Chippers mom wrote: I'm curious as to the signs when things are getting much worse and how to know when he's blocked. He's such a good boy and loves everyone. I keep asking myself, "Why him." I'm really feeling guilty because I feel that I'm part of the cause of his cancer. We lived on a golf course and he used to love to run and play ball "after hours." Now I find out that golf courses use heavy duty pesticides and fertilizers. I'm just sick about it. And carbs -- guess we'd better check into this a little more closely. How about green beans carrots? He loves those. Any help would be grateful. Susan (Chipper's mom) Hi Susan, Don't beat yourself up about being "part of the cuase"! You love your dog and his whole life until this very moment have obviously done everything in your power to make him happy, healthy and loved. This cancer stinks and it's not any fault of ours. I can only answer from my own exp. with Shelby. Carbs will feed a cancer, but we've found now that a little bread, or rice, etc is better for shelby and her stomach at times. I went totally no carbs with her for a few months, but if it helps her eat or feel better now she can have some bread. I'm not going to put her through anything more than what she's already gone through and bread isn't the bad guy at this point. If your dogs loves carrots why take away his favorite food when he already feels crummy? maybe limit them, you decide your his mom. About being "blocked up". Shelby will pee in drips over a few hours or a day. First 20, then only 10, then 5 strained and finally she's panting and running for the door like a crazed person and nothing comes out. It's maddening for her and for us and we've had it happen about 3 times since her diagnosis. After the first I realized she needed a full time anitbiotic. Then after the second we switched antibiotics and then this last time we went to clavamox and the Bethanechol. I don't know if this would help him with his spuratic urinating but our vet tried it with our Shelby and whether it was this med or the clavamox ..who knows, but something has her peeing quite well. Per one website "Bethanechol is used to relieve difficulties in urinating caused by surgery, drugs, or other factors." Shelby is 50 pounds and takes 10mg 2 times a day. Our vet thought if the tumor was resting on a nerve or someting that this drug may help. We were at our "last shot" point back them and so far so good (knock wood). Good luck with your Chipper and let us know how you're doing and what your vet says. Chrissi & Shelby Chrissishelby Thu, 08 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT My wife and I were recently crushed with the news that our Peabody (8 yrs,.) has bladder cancer (the tumor is 5 cm x 2 cm). We been reading the message boards and notice many similarities with Ryles. We have opted on Piroxicam, as we don't see anything useful in surgery. We have to wait two days for the Piroxicam to be compounded, so we are a bit anxious. We also have been looking at Graviola, but are unsure about the dosage or the safety of combining it with Piroxicam. In any case, we are doing all we can to help our beloved pet and are hopeful that sharing information on these message boards can add precious time and comfort in our dog's life. Can anybody using these meds update the progress? Thank you. Scotties Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Brian .... See message #42 by Nannyno. She has wonderful advice on Graviola and where to order it. The website www.allvita.net gives advice on dosage. I don't believe she is combining Graviola with Piroxicam however. Is anyone else using Piroxicam with Graviola? We started Ryle on Graviola Saturday. He is 45lbs and we are giving him 28 drops. Like everyone else, we are trying to do what we can to ease his pain and give him quality time. Best wishes, Ryle's Mom, Shele Ryles Mom Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Thanks, Shele--we really appreciate the message. We also hope that Ryle feels better and that the Graviola will give him the chance that he deserves. We certainly know how you and others feel about innocent pets. We will start Piroxicam tomorrow, and are hoping the best for Peabody. We just ordered Graviola as backup if and when the Piroxicam fails. (The pharmacist mentioned that some of the pets have lasted up to two years--although satellite tumors appear after the original shrinks.) It's is such a battle for us, especially since our entire condo complex is sprayed frequently with lawn herbicides--a deadly threat to Scotties. In any case, we don't want to tax Peabody's system with too much at one time so we'll hope that the Piroxicam is effective alone. Thankfully, the pharmacist has been an unexpected and tremendous help during such a horrible experience. Brian and Ronni Scotties Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT The cancer specialist from the vet hospital put my dog on Metacam (another NSAID) instead of the Piroxicam for TCC as it is milder and has less side effects. My 14-yr. old dog seems fine with it and is even perkier than usual. The holistic vet also prescribed the following supplements to combat the cancer (Poochie's 11 lbs.): IP 6 250 mg, vitamin C with Bioflavanoids 250 mg, vitamin B complex 25 mg, omega 3 salmon and fish oils 500 mg, reishi mushroom 50 mg, maitake mushroom 50 mg, shiitake mushroom 50 mg, and cranberry extract 1 ml (2 weeks on and 2 weeks off). All supplements are taken twice a day except for IP 6 (once a day on an empty stomach). Be forewarned that the dog's stools are very soft due to the omega 3 capsules! The vet tells us the most important supplements to combat the cancer are the mushrooms and omega 3 capsules. Now, Poochie drinks only distilled water (studies indicate that flouride causes canine bladder cancer) and consumes organic food. The vet has provided us with homemade recipes (25% high quality protein, 25% vegetables and 50% carbs) for Poochie's kidney disease (beginning stage) and cancer. Hope this helps! Poochie goes back to the vet's for an ultrasound in 2 weeks to check on the tumour. Will let you know if the supplements, Metacam and the new diet have made a difference. Cheers, Pip Pip14 Tue, 13 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi. I have been "watching" this board since I found it last week. My faithful boy Howie was diagnosed last week. He is a 10 1/2 y/o Beagle, Terrier mix that I have had since he was 5 weeks. Howie's TCC is inoperable, so we began with Piroxicam, love, research, and a faith cup which seems oh so not full enough. I have ordered the Graviola, and will use that in addition to the Piroxicam. SO MUCH info out there. For as many times I find a GOOD reference, I also find a BAD one. One I found, with no mention of here is a product called Transfer Factor. Anyone have any news, stories, experiences? Howie goes pee fine his first time out. Then 30 seconds later he is "trying" again. Then another 30 secs, etc. This usually is either nothing, or the dreaded "bloody drops". Hoping this clears when the secondary Bladder infection is under control. Please feel free to contact with anything you don't wish to post... I am praying for you all, as I hope you will for Howie. Thanks.... Howie's Dad Howies Dad Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi again. Below is the link to a website I found particularly helpful as I scoured the Internet for "answers". http://www.biochem.wustl.edu/~sydney/rennie.html Maybe this can help you with a few answers as well. Howie's Dad Howies Dad Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Mike, we found a Holistic Veternarian who immediately put our dog on Transfer Factor. We buy it directly from him. I believe it helps their immune system. This is what our vet recommended: Transfer Factor Advanced Formula, Stasis in the Lower Palace (Chinese Herbs), Curcumin 97 (regulates cellular inflammation), CAS Options (immune antioxidant). We also have him on CO-Q10 (60mg twice a day), Nordic Naturals Omega 3 Fish Oil (twice a day), and Tramaleen for pain (we take this too!) Ryle has been on Piroxicam every other day for a month and we just started adding Graviola. Our vet strongly supports CO-Q10, the Omega 3 Fish Oils and the mushroom mixture (which is mentioned above, not sure which one it is) --- same thing Pip mentions in her message above yours. Like Howie, Ryle's cancer is inoperable. Ryle has the same pattern of urination as Howie, but I do see improvement with the Piroxicam. And, like you, are hanging on with hope and prayers. I have you and Howie in my prayers, along with the others. Please contact me anytime. Ryle's Mom, Shele. Ryles Mom Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT This might sound funny but Gandalf seems overly sensitive to touch... He has become ticklish!!!! has any other puppy been experienced this? Otherwise he is doing great. I hate to take him off of any of the meds he's been on... This is just been a nightmare. If he didn't have this cancer I wouldn't worry about it,but now I'm wondering if the tumor is growing, is it inflamed... or are the meds just making him ticklish..if anyone has any experience with this please let me know.. Gandalf's Mom Pam Gandalfsmom Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hey there, I read your message and it sounds like My wife and I are going through the exact same thing you have been. Our 3 yr old Lab had been straining to urinate. We took her to her Doc, he treated it like a UTI, and gave her Baytril. Four days later, no change in urination. I took her for a second opinion, which resulted in wondering what is causing Madison's symptoms. I was referred to a specialist. The second opinion Doc took a TCC test, which came back positive. We are both shocked. A 3 year old very healthy Lab! What the heck, isint this supposed to be reserved for older doggys? Like you, We are amazed at how healthy Maddy seems. Now what, I am waiting to talk to the Oncologist later today. Does this sound like your situation? Madisonpp Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT I am so sorry to hear about Madison. I thought this was a older doggie thing also.. What did your oncologist say? With Gandalf the only symptom he had was blood in his urine..When we found out he had Tcc and that it was terminal we didn't believe the doctor. My husband still thinks he was misdiagnosed. But Gandalf is 13 next month..He is my love and I will do anything for him. I don't know what the outcome will be for a 13 year old dog let along a 3 year old dog. Our doctor wanted to do tests and this med and that med, we choose to keep him happy and healthy without anything evasive and he seems to be doing wonderfully.. Who really knows what works.. Maybe its just their love for us that keeps them going...Please keep us posted.. Gandalf's Mom Pam Gandalfsmom Sat, 17 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT hi, i stumbled across this site in an attempt to see how others are dealing with their dogs that have been stricken with some horrible disease. I saw that you have a 10 year old Ridgeback and I was instantly drawn to your situation. However, after reading the messages on this site, i can sympathize with everyone. My dog was recently diagnosed with heart disease. She takes a cocktail of medication everyday and it has become a struggle to keep her eating. Her weight is about 73 pounds, down from 80 in October 2004. She was always a fussy eater, but it is getting tougher as the days go by. I see that some feed their dogs oatmeal, yogurt, etc. My dog, Darla, eats chicken, beef, rice almost exclusively. To get her to take an interest, we have had to "spice it up a notch" with baby food (beef or chicken broth are faves). But there are days when even that is not interesting. And that is where we have become so distressed: she MUST eat to fight. And when she does not eat, she gets weaker. If anyone has any tips, secrets, to get a very fussy dog to eat (anything healthy) I would appreciate it. This site is a wonderful resource and it has been very helpful to me emotionally. It is great to talk/read about this. Struggling Ridgeback Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hello Brent! We welcome you to our enclave of endevour. I wanted to respond right away, even though I don't have a great remedy for Darla. I can tell you that personally, nearly any RR question I might have will be answered sooner or later in a thread of conversation running through rhodesian ridgeback folk line website: rr-folk@v2.listbox.com You must register to participate ( whethter you just read or want to join in their chat)It's not really a chat room, but parties who do chat must have conversation relating to RR's. and they discuss rescue, show results,holistic remedies, pending legislation, EVERYTHING. Depending on the number of participants that day there may be four to seven pages daily in my inbox! Perhaps you could go to a breed-specific site which is simmilar and post your appeal. Even though hunger crosses ALL breed types, of course, I don't know of a general website, but I do know that, like this one, they are "out there". I have my fingers crossed for swift, "bingo" results for your girl! God Bless, Nannyno Nannyno Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Thanks Susan for the link. I will try asap. It is very much appreciated. Today has not been a good day at all. I went out and bought some vanilla yogurt (someone on here suggested that). She seemed to enjoy that. But that was about it. We will see what this evening brings. You can see that look in their eyes: they are trying so hard for you but something just won't let them. I am not going to be a hero about this ie. her quality of life is the most important thing. And when that is no longer possible, we have to make some extremely difficult decsisions. I pray this is only a blip in this sad process. Struggling Ridgeback Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Gregg -- Hoping this message finds you with your precious Maggie still with you. I unfortunately found myself at this site tonight while trying to see through my tears. My 12 year old Westie Baxter, was disgnosed this evening rather by accident. He underwent surgery for an intestinal blockage (another story altogether) and they found bladder cancer while in there. Thinking it was just a polyp initially, they were able to remove 90% of the tumor, but the location of the remainder precludes further surgery. Wondering how you have done with chemical treatments, and if you have tried any nutritional approaches or herbal remedies such as Glaviola. I have to hit this thing with everything in my arsenal. Any advice or suggestions will be appreciated. Cathleen.o Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Cathleen, I'm really so sorry to hear about Baxter. If they were able to remove 90% of the tumor, you may have Baxter for quite a while longer. My angel departed 4 weeks ago. She had her surgery in January and the vet gave her 2-3 months. She lasted 8 months under my conditions that she still wanted to eat, still wanted to play and wasn't in pain. Up until the very last day, other than needing to pee every couple of hours, she met those conditions. Some thoughts on medicine: The piroxicam didn't seem to help and made her very finicky. We had her on it for 4 weeks and then an ultrasound showed the tumor continued to grow. So we switched her to a low dose of prednisone. It has very strong anti- inflammatory results which we suspect helped keep the tumor down but also opened up the urethra and kept her kidneys in check. Right up to the last day, her kidneys were fine as was her liver. But her bladder started to get distended and that was the beginning of the end - about a month longer. So, for Maggie, who weighed 21 pounds, she got 3-4 mg of prednisone in the morning along with 2.5mg of tramadol (a mild pain killer) and a pepcid. I also put her on the graviola - thank you to this board! - which knocked out any blood in her urine. My vet also recommended glucosamine - 250mg twice a day. Trader Joe's and others sell a liver flavored tablet which was no problem to feed her. We also had her on fish oil - one capsule per day. The latter items were to keep things well-lubricated and the glucosamine was supposed to help create mucus in the bladder. Oh - and one other item - there is an herbal vet supplement called Urinary Bladder Support. It had cranberry, uva ursi, etc. and she got that once per day. The only items I could see worked were the prednisone which shortened the length of her pees; and the graviola which definitely did clear up blood in the urine. The rest were all part of the mix and something must have worked since she lasted so much longer than the vets every expected. This is a rotten cancer but it really didn't seem to cause pain - I think it was harder for me to watch her struggle to pee or wait 2 minutes to pee than it was for her. She never cried or squirmed until the very last day. Again, my thoughts and best wishes are with you. If you ever want to talk or get more advice, please drop a note. I miss my baby girl more than I can say but I know she was happy to stay with me and her sister as long as she did. (Maggie was 10.) God bless. Gregg Hattie0815 Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hello everyone. I want to thank everyone for all of the post and useful information - and I feel for everyone that is battling this disease with there loved one. I too was devastated when my 9 year old yellow lab (Zachary) was diagnosed with bladder cancer about 3 months ago. My vet started him on the piroxicam immediately. Once I found this site, I ordered the Graviola and started giving him 50 drops per day, along with the piroxicam. We had a return visit to the vet last week - Zachary had gained weight, the vet said he had more pep in his step, and was really pleased with the way he was doing. We were so thrilled with the report.. Some days he appears to be his old self, and other days he seems a little tired. At times he appears to be having trouble urinating, but other times he seems to be going with no problem. Since being diagnosed, he seems to dribble where ever he is sitting, and wants to go out very often. But I'm dealing with it and I'm happy that he is doing well - I hope and pray that he continues to do well. I can't imagine being without him, he is definately my best friend. Rick (Zachary's Dad) Tennzman Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Brian, I too have a Scotty (13yr)with TCC. She has been on peroxicam since Aug 12, and on Sept 3 I started her on graviola (appx 16 drops). This past weekend I did not give her the graviola (going with the 2 weeks on 1 week of schedule) but I noticed she seemed "down", so I started it up again and she responded positively almost immediately. I am going to continue using both. Is Peabody doing OK on the peroxicam? When I first started giving it to Kacee I had to lower her dosage because it bothered her stomach. But I slowly raised it back up and she tolerates it very well now. We are taking it a day at a time and grateful for every day we still have her with us. Hope you have good results and many more days with Peabody. Karen Kacees Mom Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT So sorry for the loss of Maggie, and to everyone on this board, my thoughts and prayers are with you all. 3 years ago, I lost Baxter's sister Bonnie to lymphoma and now I am facing TCC with Baxter. It isn't any easier this time around. I am appreciatove of the suggestions and hindsight here. I ordered a bottle of Graviola drops today and will start them as soon as Baxter heals from his surgery. I suppose we are somewhat fortunate to have found the TCC when we did. Sunday 9/18 Baxter went into vet ER with vomiting and after x-ray and ultrasound were inconclusive for an obstruction, they performed abdominal exploratory surgery. During this, they removed the 2 pieces of the darn Nylabone he ate about 8 weeks ago (good) but found a mass on his bladder that they thought was a polyp or blood clot (bad). They removed most of it (90%) but no margins. When the biopsy came back with TCC, we were of course devastated. But again, the incidental finding of the TCC was a good thing in that most of the tumor was removed during the surgery, and it was discovered in its very early stages. Well, after 6 days in doggie ER, Baxter came home today and is weak but happy to be home. We haven't even seen the signs of the TCC yet but we know its there. When his tummy recovers, we can start the drug therapy (vet says about 3 weeks to allow healing internally). I will also start the Graviola. I am cautiously positive because when Baxter left the hospital today, the vet said that he has the best "chance" of survival she has seen in these cases because it was detected so early and because most of it was removed. Hoping against hope that since only a "small" amount of the cancer cells remain, that we can knock it out holistically and with chemo drugs. May also try the NSAIDs. We have a wonderful UC Davis oncologist on standby to start the protocol when Baxter is ready. Again, I am less than 24 hours from diagnosis at this point, and that disgnosis was pre-symptoms. I will keep the board updated with everything I learn along the way. I hope I am lucky like some of you have been in that you were able to enjoy your companions for many months after disgnosis, but I know in my hear that someday we will all grieve together. Baxter is the best dog I have ever had. In addition to this board, the chemo, the other drugs and the Graviola, I am trying to remain positive, but most of all, I am praying. So happy to have found a forum here. Thanks again to all who have posted; your advice, counsel, spirit, hope and love of these precious pets will inspire and encourage me throught his painful time. Cathleen.o Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Karen, Thank you for your message -- it is appreciated. We hope that your Scottie, along with all of the other dogs on this forum, will see better days ahead. I think we all unfortunately carry with us that dreaded thought of the day that we may have to make the dreaded decison. In any case, we are fighting on for Peabody's life. We mix the powdered piroxicam (pharmacict's suggestion as not to concentrate it in any one spot in his stomach) in ground beef, spinach, and carrots daily with a dosage of 4 mg. Also, no Carbs whatsoever. It doesn't seem to bother him, although our pharmacist mentioned that it takes a while (build up) for possible problems with the stomach to occur with piroxicam. Yesterday we started 7 drops of graviola and will slowly increase the dosage after we see that there are no complications. (In general, we try to keep LOW dosages) Peabdy also uses ambrotose to--seemingly--aid cell strength. Our vet also suggested Transfer Factor, but we are holding off more meds because we do not want to tax his system. Peabody still has blood in his urine, but is urinating more freely than before. This is good news, but we are well aware of the tumor still resting in his bladder. We are doucumenting his progress (or lack of)diet, bowels, urination, etc. on a spreadsheet to help us make any logical connection that we can for us and any other pet lover in the future. But this will take much more time to be effective, if at all. Action has helped our prayers more than anything and we will share any information to all of you. BTW, keep the dogs off the treated grass (especially Scotties) and wash off the paws EVERY time the dog comes in. Hang in there to all. Scotties Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT I'm new to this message board. After doing so much research online, I thought I would give this a try! I have a yellow lab who is almost 9 years old. She is my baby girl! She was spayed at 2 yrs. About 3 weeks ago she was having trouble urinating. She was literally trying to go every 10 seconds! Then she started bleeding. It was a brownish bloody discharge comping from her vulva. When I took her to the vet, he decided to treat her as having a urinary tract infection. After tests showed she has no blood in her urine. Over a period of 10 days, she lost 7 lbs. She had an appetite tho. When the vet gave her an exam he said her bladder wall did seem a little thick, but it might just be inflammed from straining so much. The pain meds and anti-inflammatory seemed to have worked. She is now doing fine. What I'm wondering tho, is if these medications are just camoflaging her symptoms and if she might actually have a tumor... If she hadn't of gotten better with the meds the next step would have been a ultrasound. I'm just trying to get one step ahead. After all, you really have to have your own diagnosis before you go to the vet. Their diagnosis depends alot on the symptoms that you tell them. Has anyone else had experience with this type of symptom? Thanks for any help.. If this is a tumor, I would like to catch it as early as possible. This is my first little girl! She was my family before I ever had one... We would be absolutely devastated if anything happened to her. Georgias Mom Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Buffy, We had very similar sympthoms with our dog. We treated him from March to July for what we thought was a urinary tract infection. The Baytril masked the real problem for us. It helped his frequency of urination, but after a couple of months, the problem resurfaced. In May we too were told that his bladder wall seemed a bit thick which could be from an infection. He also lost weight and we were very concerned. In July, after a visit to the emergency clinic, our vet suggested an ultrasound, still thinking it might be kidney stones. That's when we found three masses. They did a needle biopsy while they were doing the ultrasound and the results came back TCC. We were shocked. If I had known what I know now, I would have had the ultrasound done in March. Early detection is important with any cancer. You best know your dog and how your dog acts. And, you have to listen to your heart too. You are in my thoughts. Best wishes. Feel free to contact me anytime. Ryle's Mom, Shele Ryles Mom Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hello again. Thanks for getting back to me. I know I basically have to make a judgement call here, but I'm torn. I know the vets know what they're doing, but I have this feeling that she has been misdiagnosed. On one hand if she does have TCC, I definitly would like to find it early, on the other, I've already spent $600 just for them to tell me she has a UTI. Do I jump the gun and ask for the ultrasound (more $) or should I see where this goes? Who knows, maybe it is just a UTI... Georgie seems to be just fine right now. But I know if she came up with these symptoms again down the road, I'd be kicking myself for not having this done earlier! Your dog was diagnosed in July? How is she/he? Do you have a approximation of life expectancy? I know that if she were to have TCC, I would not treat it other than to keep her comfortable. What's your opinion? My husband loves the dog too, but he's a little upset with what we've paid already... But in the end, he knows what she means to me and the kids and wouldn't tell me not to go ahead. Georgias Mom Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Buffy -- I am no expert with TCC...just joined this board myself. But I wanted to share with you that my Baxter was diagnosed early and because of that, our vet says he has the "best chance" of all the dogs she has diagnosed with this terrible disease. I understand you have paid the $600 and that is a lot of cash, but it will be far more if you have to undergo aggressive chemo or other treatments to get control of the TCC (at least for as long as you can). I would counsel you to go for the ultrasound (about $200 in my experience) but be sure the doctor performing it is an expert (and not just on an occasional basis). You could always ask your vet, considering the amount you have paid thus far, to consider a reduction in the fee, or at least offer you payment plan. Maybe there is a teaching hospital in your area? You might want to find out. If you love you dog as much as it sounds like you do, it is better to know if TCC is there, than to hope it isn't. If you ignore it, it WILL only get worse. At least if you know, you can make informed decisions about treatment. Let us know how it goes. I wish you and Georgie only the best! Cathleen Cathleen.o Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Buffy, My baby was also treated for an UTI only to have the symptoms return.I put off having an ultrasound done as well, figuring it wouldn't change anything. But after days of wondering is it TCC ? or hoping it was not I finally went ahead with it. Although hearing that it WAS tcc was difficult at least I am no longer in denial. There is also a urine test - VBTA (has anyone else heard of this test?)- that can be done. My vet was not too keen on it as there can be false positive results but he ran it anyway to pacify me. If it had come back negative I probably would have stopped there and waited, but it did come back positive so that was when I had the ultrasound done. Yes it can run into quite a bit of money, but like Cathleen said if your Vet won't work with you maybe you can call around and find a Vet that will. Karen Kacees Mom Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Karen, The thing that I am unsure of is, when they genuinely have a UTI they have blood in their urine right? Georgie didn't have any blood in her urine, but she was bleeding from the same area. Did anyone else experience this? If I could know for a fact that all UTI's have to have blood in the urine, obviously that's not what she has. I would from there definitly go ahead with the ultrasound. I have heard of the V-BTA test. I actually called the vet and asked if she had that done while there and they didn't even know what that test was... She has two small lumps on here chest and the vet checked those and said they should be fine, but to keep an eye on them and if they seem to grow larger or irregular then they would need some more looking into. It worries me that these lumps might actually be stemmed from a larger problem like TCC. Otherwise, right now she is in perfect health and acting like her normal self. If she was to have another bout with the "UTI" how long would you guess until she would start with those symptoms again? Thanks for all your help. It's really great to talk with people who obviously care just as deeply for their friends as I do. Georgias Mom Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Buffy, With my dog is started with frequent urination to the point that she was going in the house. There was no blood the first time she was treated for a UTI, in fact they did not even check her urine figuring if it did not clear up then they would do further testing. The frequency and accidents stopped for about 1 month and when it started up again then the blood appeared in her urine - but not every time. When the vet did a "simple" urine test in the office it did not show anything, but he sent it off for further testing, which came back neg. for a UTI. Kacee had 3 tumors in her foot removed back in March (they were cancerous)- so maybe lumps in other parts of the body can be connected - but don't take that to heart - I really don't know for sure. When Kacee started having her accidents again after the first treatment for UTI I actually thought it was incontenence (she is 13 1/2) but when the blood started that was a different story. I did not notice any other symptoms at the time (figuring her age would account for slowed down activity). Kacee also was panting alot (but we are in Arizona with 100+ temps). And she actually gained weight after her surgery on her foot. And at that point the Vet said she was in remarkably good health for a 13 yr old. So you can imagine my shock when I found out she had TCC. About having to have blood in the urine for it to be a UTI. My other dog had a UTI many years ago (he was about 8 months) and he had no blood. Just frequent urination which stopped within 2 days of the antibiotics and never returned (he had been in a kennel and the Vet said sometimes that happens because they are unsure where to go and end up holding their urine way too long). This probably isn't much help but it is all I can offer. Karen Kacees Mom Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Thank you to everyone who has helped me. You've given me a lot more information that has helped! Sometimes it's better to get the info from someone who's gone through this that to just listen to what the vet has to say. I will keep ya'll informed.... Thanks again! Georgias Mom Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Shele... I hope this message finds all is well with Ryle...I was just wondering if Ryle is having problems with being incontinent?? Gandalf was fine until last Monday and now he is starting to uninate in the house. I know he can't help it. I just hate this.. It seems like EVERYTHING is related to this horrible cancer. If he isn't sleeping well, it's the cancer. If he's too hot, it's the cancer. If he doesn't want his beloved bananas it's the cancer. If I didn't know he had cancer I would not worry.. Now it's all about that. I want to forget he has it and just enjoy the rest of his life. But I can't. I just keep crying and wishing I could erase the tumor and we could all go back to our wonderful pre-cancer days... Gandalf's Mom Pam Gandalfsmom Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Pam, This cancer thing is so hard on all of us. I'm so very sorry to hear about Gandalf. Right now we haven't had that problem with Ryle, but it seems things change daily anymore. I feel a bit overwhelmed somethimes. There are days when he only eats half of his meals and there are days when he can't get enough. He wants to be outside all the time now. He just lays in the grass and watches the neighborhood. This morning he was shaking, so we gave him a Tramadol for pain. Some days are harder than others, but we try not to let him know we are depressed. As long as he wants to keep going and he wants to eat, we are here for him. We love him so very much. Give Gandalf a hug from us and my thoughts and prayers are with you guys. Shele and Ryle B. Ryles Mom Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Shele, Could we love these little babies any more.. Overwhelmed is exactly how I have been feeling lately. Gandalf gives me so much joy that I think that is the most heartbreaking. Thank you for all your wonderful words. We missed the blessing of the animals this past Sunday...Maybe we should all do a blanket blessing for our puppies!!! Pam Gandalfsmom Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT I just learned today that our wonderful dog, Mike, has a tumor in his bladder. About 10 days ago I noticed blood in his urine.He's been on Clavamox for 10 days and no more blood. But now what to do? I found this website, thank God, and was heartened by the wonderful emails from all of you. I need to ask you, those of you whose dogs have been living with this for a while, what would you tell someone who just found out about this? We adopted Mike from a county shelter in 8/92. The vet guessed at that time that he was about a year old. So Mike is about 14 years old now. We want to keep him safe and happy for as long as is possible, just do right for him. I have an appt. with a holistic vet on Thursday. My vet seems to think that Piroxicam is the way to go, but warned me about stomach ulcers. Mike has always had a sensitive GI system, so we're not sure about this. From your emails I learned about Graviola. I will ask the holistic vet about this herb. Any other suggestions? Mike did not have his usual Nutro Senior kibble tonight. Instead I gave him boiled beef, raw carrots, parsley and distilled water, it's what I had in the house. Any suggestions as to foods or treatments would be so appreciated. Mike is love itself. I took him to the local nursing home for years. Everyone loved him and he loved going there. I would tell him we're going to work and he would get so excited. He is so special and has given us so much that I have to do everything I can to keep him safe and comfortable for as long as possible. I know if the roles were reversed, he would do that for me. jomar Jomar Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Jo Ann, I am so sorry to hear about Mike. It sounds like you are taking the right steps toward helping him. In July our dog had an ultrasound and a biopsy which came back positive for TCC. We started him on Piroxicam every other day and about two weeks ago, put him on a daily dose. This has proved to be too much for him, so we are now off Piroxicam for about 2 weeks to get his system healed. We will start back again, but just every other day. I think the Graviola has helped his energy level. Your vet should be able to tell you what to do with his diet and other suppliments. We give our dog raw food and his treats are venison, beef and duck jerky. No carbs, as this feeds the cancer. Best wished to you both and keep us informed on your progress. We are all learning as we go. Shele and Ryle B. Ryles Mom Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi. I'm fairly new to this also. My little girl was only diagnosed with a UTI. But from other symptoms she's had and research, I firmly believe she has a tumor. She has not been diagnosed tho. (Mainly because I'm busy paying for the $600 it took to diagnose this!) I don't know alot about this cancer, but from what I've read, there really isn't alot of options. In some cases surgery can be an option, but the chances are not great and the pain is severe in the dog. The only other option I've been able to find is changing the diet. The carbs will let the cancer grow whereas doing what you're already doing will keep it from growing. That's the same thing I am doing now! She hasn't been diagnosed, but if she was this would be the only thing to do. I have changed her food to about the same diet you've said. I'm just focused on her food and loving her. I've been giving her lots of special attention. She's living quite comfortably now, getting away with things that she's not normally allowed to do! (She sheds so bad, so we usually keep her off the couch!) We just want to keep her happy and comfortable. She has given us a lots of happy times and right now I just want to spoil her! She deserves the best and I'm gonna give it to her! Sorry I couldn't be more of a help in medical options. The way I'm looking at it tho is, change the diet and make sure she is always happy and comfortable. My Georgia will be 9 the end of December and I NEED many more birthdays out of her! It's kinda crazy, I have a husband and 2 small kids, and she has been my loyal companion through everything. Love him and enjoy him for as long as you can! Good Luck! Georgias Mom Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Thank you for your reassuring words. I am sorry to hear about Georgia. But if she wasn't officially diagnosed with a bladder tumor, for your own sanity, try to think positive. Taking her off carbs is a good idea, "spoiling" her is even better. Yes, I too am spoiling Mike in the same way. I've spent the afternoon preparing meals for him for the next few days. I felt like I was making a holiday dinner, chopping this and that, weighing to make sure he gets enough, but not too much! Tomorrow we go to a holistic vet for a consultation and to see what supplements, etc. he should be getting. Part of me wants him to get biopsied because I can't believe he has cancer. Outside of his age, he looks and acts like he's in good health, is enthusiastic and curious and as loving as he's ever been. Maybe I'm in denial.... I just want to do right by him. If drugs are the way, then in addition to a change in diet, that's what we'll do. Good luck with Georgia and may you have many more years of sharing life with her. P.S. In just two days, I've learned so much about nutrition and drugs for this awful thing, thank you everyone. Jomar Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Thank you for your kindness. I hope Ryle continues to be strong. Since many of you have been down this terrible road for a while, I was hoping someone might have some advice. Mike is about 14 years old (he was a stray from an shelter). He was diagnosed by ultrasound as having a 3 cm. mass in his bladder. They also saw a small mass on top of one of his adrenal glands which they say may or may not be malignant. Mike has arthritis in both back knees and had surgery on them years ago. Last December when being tested for Cushing syndrome (came up negative) a shadow was seen on one of Mike's lungs. At that time the vet told us it could have been the way he was positioned for the test, I think it was an X ray, but don't remember for sure. Both the vet at the hospital where the test was done and the holistic vet (not at all connected to the first)we saw today said Mike was a "good candidate" for surgery. I find it hard to believe. They both said he was in very good condition. Both said of course that he would have to have a presurgery workup, like chest x ray and blood work to determine if everything else is OK. When we found out about the tumor but before we saw the holistic vet, both my husband and I agreed no surgery because we are concerned that the trauma of the anesthesia might do more harm than good. The vet took all the time in the world with us explaining treatments and her reasons for them. But some of her suggestions are strange to me and I am hoping someone out there know about them. 1. She suggested injections of (believe it or not) Venus Fly Trap. She said it's been given in Germany for years and has been successful for treating cancers in dogs. The snag is only money,(hah!) $10 a pop, everyday for forever. She said I could give Mike the injection, but once we begin it, we should not stop it because it could then cause a rapid deterioration. She said she has seen dogs come in with cancer in very poor condition. They get this VFT and it's like a new lease on life. Sound too good to be true? Anyone heard of it? 2. She also recommends Maitake DMG. Is anyone giving their pet this brand of mushroom? I know some of you give maitake and reishi and it helps. The vet says this one has an amino acid that oxygenates cells, something that cancer cells don't like. 3. The vet hasn't heard of Graviola. I want to get it for Mike. I tried to get info from the allvita website but could not. Any other places to get it? She also put Mike on a lot of gastric support and something called ARRU and IP6. This vet feels we should not begin Piroxicam for a few weeks until Mike's gastric system and immune system are built up so they can withstand the "trauma" from the medication. Mike has always has a sensitive stomach and colon, prone to diarrhea and gas when his diet was changed even a little. Cutting out the dry and canned food is a very big change right now. Of course no one can tell us how much time we would be giving Mike no matter which way we went. It goes without saying that none of us want to do more harm than good when it comes to a determining the best care possible for those we love. All those years of giving him "quality" dog food turned out to be the absolute wrong thing, even though my intentions were good. I don't want to do the same thing again. We are willing to try anything to help Mike and at the same time, give him the quality of life he deserves. Please whoever reads this would you take the time to give us your thoughts. In terms of factors here are the pros and cons. Cons are: Mike's age (14), the spot on his lung, the small mass on his adrenal gland and the arthritis. The pros are: You would never know Mike has a dreadful disease. His appetite is excellent (he does sleep more, but that has been for the past few years), his absolute love of life and people, his absolute determination to catch a chipmunk (he actually caught one once, but I made him drop it before he crushed its skull), his cheerfulness and loving spirit, his stoicism and the joy he brings to our lives from just being himself. Everyone in our neighborhood knows Mike. I call him the Pope John Paul of dogdom. He draws people out by his love, acceptance and gentleness. (He was a therapy dog and we visited nursing homes). I would love to have your thoughts - what would you do for your beloved creature given these all things? jomar and Mike Jomar Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Sorry to hear about our newest members Mike and Georgia...it is never easy. I only joined a few weeks ago as we incidentally learned of Baxter's TCC. We found the tumor and removed it (during a surgery for something else - long story) so we have been technically symptom free. Since we are in the extremely early stages, we may even have a fighting chance of zapping the cancer completely so I am trying to be positive. In the meantime I thought I would share with you all that I have learned after consults with holistic as well as a traditional vet and a veterinary internist/oncologist. Here are the treatments options that I have learned and am using: 1. carbohydrate free (all protein diet - we are cooking chicken and ground beef and lamb, and giving cottage cheese and hardboiled eggs). 2. multi-vitamin for dietary balance. 3. we started on the piroxicam and added ranitidine to protect his stomach (zantac type med). 4. fish oil 2000 mg/day. 5. Maitake mushroom petfraction (look this up - can inhibit cancer cells). 6. Transfer Factor Plus (from 4life.com) re-teaches the newer cells of the immune system to ID and fight cancer. 7. Protocel 23 which apparently "disrupts" the cancer cell. For everyone's protection, please ask your vet about these things before trying them on your dog! I am only using these things with the advice of our veterinary team and everything has been dosed according to Baxter's needs. Our vet did say that graviola is a good thing esp. when symptomatic (i.e. blood in the urine), but I just want to share that if you really start digging, there are more options than just graviola and piroxicam. These options can help to strengthen the immune system to fight this terrible disease. Of course love and hugs are the best medicine that we can all add to our dogs' regimen. Final note, we plan to have an ultrasound done every 2-3 months to check for growth of more tumors (the tumor we found was removed but w/o margins so we have to assume there are more in there). Frequent ultrasounds can help determine if what we are doing is working or not, then we can adjust the plan accordingly. I wish everyone the very best, and will continue to post as I learn more. Our holistic vet is in Davis, CA and will do phone and email consults so please let me know if interested and I can pass on his name and contact info. I write this united with all of you in the fight against TCC. Baxter by the way, is in good spirits today, he just got bathed and clipped and is very proud of himself. Let's never forget those sweet images. Thanks to everyone for all the support and advice! Cathleen.o Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT One more note...I highly recommend the book called Outsmart Your Cancer: Alternative Non-Toxic Treatments That Work. The ISBN number is: 0972886737. Best to everyone again! Cathleen and Baxter Cathleen.o Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Jo Ann, Hope I can help. Please keep in mind this is just my thought . . . I am not a veternarian. I only know how our dog tolerates medications. You have to know your own dog and his reactions to medications, etc. This is what our Holistic vet has Ryle is on: Marshmallow (480mg x2 day) and Slippery Elm (x2 day) -- these are herbs to help with any gastric problems from Piroxicam. You can get these at any vitamin store. We have him on Tansfer Factor Advanced Formula (you can buy this online -- from the vet, it is VERY expensive), Stasis in the Lower Palace (Chinese Herbs), Curcumin 97 (regulates cellular inflammation), CAS Options (immune antioxidant). We also have him on CO-Q10 (60mg twice a day), Nordic Naturals Omega 3 Fish Oil (twice a day), and Tramaleen for pain (we take this too!) The Maitake mushrooms are good for building the immune system (per our vet). Try again online at http://www.allvita.net/graviola.htm for Graviola. I have seen a difference in Ryle's energy level. Our vet was amazed. We started Ryle on Piroxicam every other day and increased his dose to every day about two weeks ago. He had a bad reaction, so we are going back to every other day. With Piroxicam, you need to be diligent and watch for bloody stools. Ryle just turned 12 and he has three masses. We decided not to do surgery. Our vet told us this cancer, once disturbed, has the potential to spread to other organs. Also, given Mike's age, that would be a huge risk for him. I haven't heard of Venus Fly Trap shots. Maybe someone else on the board has. I would research that before I tried it. Funny you should mention Cushing Syndrom, because they thought Ryle had that about a year ago. I've convinced it was the beginning sign of his cancer. We give Ryle raw food that we buy from a company called Darwin in Seattle. Some people make their own with raw meat. With Ryle, we are just trying to make his quality of life good and comfortable. Please contact me anytime if I can help . . . maybe just a kind ear to listen. Best wishes. Shele and Ryle B. Ryles Mom Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Susan, I just read your message regarding Graviola. I hope your RR is doing well. I wondered about how you arrived at the dosage of 50 drops of graviola. Our 65 lb. lab mix was just diagnosed with this awful disease and we are hoping we have the same success as you with this herb (among other supplements and diet). Any information about dosage would be appreciated. Thank you. jomar and Mike Jomar Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT JoAnn, I'm in agreement with Shele (Ryle's Mom). Every dog is different and only you know your dog. My Kacee is 13 1/2 - she had surgery back in March for a cancer on her foot. It was very hard on her and at that point I vowed no surgeries again. She has been on peroxicam (a liquid compound), pepcid and graviola for a few months. Although she as well has had a sensitive stomach she is doing great on the peroxicam (at least for now - you never know). And the graviola does indeed appear to give her more energy. We have not taken the Holistic route but that may change. Shele seems quite up on that. Right now Kacee seems pretty healthy. If I didn't know she had TCC I would just assume she was slowing down due to old age. Her urine has finally cleared up and the urgency has gotten back to normal (again - for now). Don't blame yourself for giving him "quality" dog food. If it was the food millions of dogs would be afflicted with this. It's like people that smoke all their lives and don't get lung cancer and then there are people who never smoke and they get lung cancer. The food (like the herbicides) may contribute but there are so many variables - genetics being one - you just never know. Kacee was also tested for Cushing Disease last year - so maybe there is a link. All I can say is do what you feel comfortable doing, and what would be tolerable to Mike. He is your baby. Karen Kacees Mom Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Just a word of thanks for you that have responded to my plea for help with Mike. We started giving Mike IP6, Maitake DMG, some digestive enzymes, ACCRU (a kind of digestive tonic from the vet) acidolphilus, flaxseed (but just a little at a time) and CoQ10. I've been cooking protein and veggies for him. No carbs if possible. I have one question; how much Graviola do you give? Mike is 67 pounds. Since my vet hasn't heard of this herb she can't advise me. Any thoughts? I will definitely see if my library has the book you suggested. We bought Mike some dried sardines (yuk) from an Oriental food store as a snack in lieu of dog biscuits. Today was not a good day for him, but I guess that't to be expected. One day at a time. God bless all our beautiful dogs. JoAnn and Mike Jomar Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi JoAnn If you go to www.allvita.net and click on graviola, at the very bottom of the page is the dosage. That is where I buy graviola. The drops are so easy to give instead of pill form. Sounds like the (yuk) dried sardines are a good idea. Kacee still gets some kibble so taking out the biscuits will help keep her carbs down. Thanks for the idea! Keep us posted. Karen Kacees Mom Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Karen, Yes, I did go to the allvita website. I actually gave Mike some (not a full dosage) last evening with his dinner. I also gave him for the first time the Maitake mushroom extract as well as 1/4 tablet of Rimadyl (something he's been on and off for several years). Something made him sick to his stomach as well as caused him loose stools. Not only that, this morning he had blood in his urine again. I am very upset that instead of helping this poor animal, I'm making his life more uncomfortable. I guess we have to keep trying these new things a little at a time. Did Kacee have any problems with the Graviola the first few times? Jo Ann Jomar Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT JoAnn, The first day I gave the graviola to Kacee I gave her drops straight from the bottle into her mouth. She did get an upset stomach. Then I read on the bottle "to remove alcohol add to hot (or warm - can't remember) water". So now I put about a tablespoon of water in a small cup and heat in microwave for 10 seconds, then I add the graviola and then I add food. She has not had an upset stomach since - ?? She gets pepcid before her evening meal, the peroxicam after her evening meal and the graviola in the morning. She had blood in her urine on and off for weeks. It has since stopped, but it's a day to day thing. Kacee is not on anything else. I have not taken the holistic route as of yet. You are giving Mike alot of new things so his system needs to adjust. We all want to help our babies. Maybe you should introduce the new supplements gradually so you can tell how he is reacting to what. Just a suggestion - every dog is different. Its a matter of finding out what YOUR baby can and can not tolerate. Hope this helps - Karen Kacees Mom Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi, I am Lori and my dog Dollar has recently been diagnosed with bladder cancer. She is a border collie/shep x 13 years old. I just had to post and say how grateful I am for finding all this information. To see that others are finding ways to help their pets and sharing them. The internet is a good thing :} Knew there was a problem when after she urinated she walked 'bow legged' with her tail up liek she was trying to get some more out. Then the puddles in the house. This did go unnoticed as I have another dog with spaying incontenince and live with the occasional puddle from her. After antibiotics didnt work they found it was cancer. Hers is at the bottom of the badder; so inoperatable. I have had her on Piroxicam (on 2 days off 1)for about a month and her tumor has shrunk about 50% after the first 2 weeks, but her urine is still reddish, still peeing in the house and still doing a bit of the high tail shimmy. So all the symptoms are still there. I got home from work today and there was a pool of blood on the floor. I almost fainted it scared me so bad! She has since being peeing yellow. I am off to the vet tomorrow and am very happy to have read all your suggestions now I have some ideas and thoughts to go over with the Dr. I am very excited to try the Graviola and change her diet! Maybe us two girls can go on Atkins together! Thanks everyone Lori Lorijj Sun, 30 Oct 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Lori, So sorry to hear about Dollar. Sounds like you have a plan of attack. We are all here because we are desperate for answers and help for our beloved pets. And it's been wonderful to hear about everyone's experiences with different treatments and what is helping. Every dog is different, but since our dog has been on Graviola we've noticed hardly any blood in his urine. He has bad days and good days and we take both as they come. We are just trying to keep him comfortable and give him the best quality life we can. Keep us posted on the Dollar's progress. Best wishes. Shele and Ryle B. Ryles Mom Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:00:00 GMT I just got my Dollar back from the vet and the prognosis is not good. Her tumor is now about 80% of her bladder. The proxicam worked for a short period and now has ceased working. I took all my literature from this newsgroup to the vet and the sweet guy said it was worth a shot but I could see it in his face that what he was really saying is that she is past any help it is just too far along. So I have been crying for the last hour wondering what my life would be like without my best girl. She has the cancer and I am feeling sorry for myself. I am so bad at dealing with death, I am not sure if I just let her die from this disease or do I put her down. She doesn't seem in pain, she is just her same bubbly, mouthy, playful self. I really don't mind the pee puddles I find around the house, it is just a mild inconvenience. Can someone tell me if she will go quietly from this cancer or will it get painful for her and therefore I should put her down. I just wish she could tell me what she wants. Thanks for any input Lori Lorijj Wed, 02 Nov 2005 00:00:00 GMT Lori, I am in tears just reading your message. I've had the same thoughts. I don't think anyone can tell you (or me) with any certainty. My Kacee's tumer takes up probably 2/3 or more of her bladder. She has the occasional accident, but I have learned to force her to go out frequently (even getting up during the nite) and that has helped with the puddles. I don't know if the piroxicam and graviola have done anything to the tumor and I have not had her re-checked. My reasoning is that the cancer is not going to go away so why put her thru any vet visits. I will keep giving her both because it doesn't seem to be hurting her, and the graviola seems to give her more energy. As long as she is not in pain, still wants to play (even if it is only short periods of time), is still eating and still excited about "treats" she is going to stay with me. The vet had told me that eventually the tumor may get so large it will stop her urine flow and that would be the time to "move quickly" as he put it. Its just one day at a time. Sorry I have no answers, We all have to do what we feel is best for our babies and ourselves. Every case is different. Just know we are here for support and kind words. Karen Kacees Mom Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:00:00 GMT Lori, I too am in tears reading about Dollar. Like Karen with Kacee, we are not sure what to expect as this disease progresses. A bit up the message chain, number 65, there is a note from Gregg called "some 20/20 hindsight on TCC". He has some information about his little Baxter and her fight with TCC until the end. Our Ryle has three tumors, so his prognosis is not good at all. All we can hope for is as little pain as possible for him, that he still wants to play, eat and go for walks in the mountains (his favorite thing to do). We can only go one day at a time and pay attention what our pups are telling us by their body language. Know that we are here to support each other and Karen is right, maybe it's just to give some kind words. God Bless and give you strength in your journey. Shele and Ryle B. Ryles Mom Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:00:00 GMT I just found this message board. On 9-26-05 our 12 year old female corgi was diagnosed with terminal bladder cancer. Like many of you it was in an area by her urethra and inoperable. Since she was diagnosed with an auto immune disorder a few years back our vet suggested against chemo. We put her on the Piroxicam and within 24 hours saw great results. No more accidents and no more straining. Her appetite has not been good. It took 2 months to find out what was wrong, numerous blood tests, urine cultures, urine tests. Everything came back normal. Then we went to a specialist and were shocked at the diagnosis. Last week she went completely off food. We thought maybe a UTI since we had heard that is very common in dogs with bladder cancer. The vet found billiruben in her urine (first time they found anything unusual) - did blood work as the vet suspected her pancreas was being effected. To everyone's surprise she came back with liver failure. Normal liver function is 151 and Mollys was well over 4000. We have taken her off the Piroxicam as we didn't know if that set off her immune disorder. Her appetite is coming back but we are scared to death like the most of you - does the cancer get her first or the liver failure. I'm interested in the Graviola. Has anyone else had problems with liver problems while on the Piroxicam? By the way - Lori - read your post and I'm in tears as well. Since learning that our beatiful little girl is cursed with this disease there isn't a day that goes by without tears. Thanks, Sheryl & Molly Corgilover3 Tue, 08 Nov 2005 00:00:00 GMT Hi Sheryl, I don't have any info on liver failure that would be helpful. Last year before Kacee was diagnosed her liver function tests were pretty high. The vet thought it was Cushing Disease but those tests showed not. She was diagnosed in Aug with TCC (frequent urination