CancerCompass message board discussion started by Jef1963 on 2/6/2008 http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,20687,0.htm Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:00:00 GMT Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:00:00 GMT http://backend.userland.com/rss RSS.NET: http://www.rssdotnet.com/ My derm asked me to use a mix of Vaseline, bacitracin, and hydrocortisone on my face until all redness and swelling and healing is accomplished.  I am also using some of the advice on this page:http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/burns-000021.htm Including many habits that I do anyway, including multi-vitamins, lots of water and taking a body builders mix known as "Muscle Milk" which meets a lot of those nutritional requirements on that page. I hate to compare myself against others but I believe that I am healing at a much faster rate that some of the photo blogs that are on the web.  I expect to be completely healed in about a week after finishing treatment. There are a few reasons for this.  1. I always kept the skin moist during the treatment and didn't suffer the thick skin cracking and bleeding that others suffer.  2. Scrubbing the skin with a washcloth allowed a new layer to be exposed to the medicine more often.  Think of scabs as being shields against the topical medicine.  It makes sense to get them out of the way.  Soaking in a bath and gently abrading them off is relatively painless.  You will find an optimum amount of force to remove what is removable and allow what should stay to stay.  3.  Exercise that increases bloodflow. Healing nutrients are carried to the skin faster when metabolism is increased.  Even broken bones heal faster in a stationary leg when the other leg is exercised.  This is something I learned from a study conducted at the Olympic training center. I think it's going well.          Jef1963 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Great link!  Thanks! Alwaysinthesun Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Great post, Jeff.  Would you happen to know what the "average" heal time is?  I'm anxiously awaiting that part of this regimen.   SpankyB Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT I am not aware of the average heal time but I can tell you I was worried when I saw these blogs and the effects: http://www.sannerud.com/people/efudex/index.html  andhttp://myefudex.com/1.html Again, I think the gentle scrubbing, vaseline from hours 4-12, and shaving made the difference. Clearly, Celebrex made it worse and more irritated but I did see a whole new layer of lesions surface and die when I combined the 5FU and celecoxib.Here is a photo of my forehead which was treated with Efudex for 21 days. http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003630338164441404 The small redspot in the middle is actually a spot caused most likely by the constantly oily surface.  I'm 45 years old and still get pimples like a teenager!  My mom got them into her 60s.    Jef1963 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT A larger view of the same photohttp://aycu36.webshots.com/image/41235/2003630338164441404_r    Jef1963 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Yes, thank you.  The logic behind that is this:Using the Efudex creates a situation that is something very much like a first degree burn.A mix of those remedies will help in the recovery being less painful and less duration.HydrationDebridement (scrubbing)Bacitracin  I am doing all of theseEat antioxidant foods, including fruits (such as blueberries, cherries,and tomatoes), and vegetables (such as squash and bell peppers).Avoid refined foods, such as white breads, pastas, and sugar.Eat fewer red meats and more lean meats, cold-water fish, tofu (soy) or beans for protein.Use healthy cooking oils, such as olive oil or vegetable oil.Reduce or eliminate trans-fatty acids, found in commercially bakedgoods such as cookies, crackers, cakes, French fries, onion rings,donuts, processed foods, and margarine.Avoid coffee and other stimulants, alcohol, and tobacco. (1 cup of coffee a day)Drink 6 - 8 glasses of filtered water daily. (much more in my case!)Exercise at least 30 minutes daily, 5 days a week. (much more!)I am doing these 4 of the 10 suggested:A daily multivitamin, containing the antioxidant vitamins A, C, E,the B-complex vitamins and trace minerals such as magnesium, calcium,zinc, and selenium.Omega-3 fatty acids, such as fish oil, 1 - 2 capsules or 1tablespoonful oil, one to two times daily, to help decreaseinflammation, and for healing and immunity. Cold-water fish, such assalmon or halibut, are good sources, but taking the supplement isrecommended.Vitamin C, 500 - 1,000 mg, one to three times daily, as an antioxidant and for healing.Whey protein, 10 - 20 grams daily mixed in favorite beverage or asa smoothie (use soy or rice milk), twice daily, for support of immunityand weight gain. Jef1963 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT How many days post treatment is your forehead photo?Did you document your treatment?  SpankyB Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Jeff, those pictures are pretty sobering.  I thought I was bad at day 8 - but it is clear that I have a long, long way to go.  Do you think those photos are the norm?  Was that bad for you too?The only good thing is that we have this site to share this ordeal together - otherwise, I'm not sure that I would complete the process.  Jeff thanks for all the info, and for staying with us even though you are done with this. Alwaysinthesun Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT 4 full days. I didn't document by photos because I couldn't find the charger for my camera until just a few days ago. That's a big benefit of Efudex, you get a lot of things done around the house. LOL Jef1963 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Always in,I don't think anyone has to go through those extremes in the photoblogs.  I did look a bit like the bottom photo on myefudex.com for the last 5 days of my treatment.I never got the large areas of thick scabbing though and I believe that was because of the consistent debridement (scrubbing) and perhaps the shaving that took it off in thinner layers but more often.I think it makes a big difference to keep it moist with Vaseline when you're in the treatment.  Jef1963 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT I've yet to do TX on face/forehead, so my experience is full arms/hands.  My derm actually is a researcher and uses Levulan with ultraviolet light treatments (aminolevulinic acid) and feels I will do better with that on face and is much more precise isolating the AKs and less post TX trauma. But again, have not started that.My arms still as painful 13 days after last 5-FU application.  The hardest is washing/shower, but found Dove sensitive the best soap and then put on thick Palmer's Cocoa Butter and nerves really calm down.  During the day Betamethasone Dipropionate steroid cream also helps for a few hours. Ask your doc for the RX, and it has a petrolatum base - vaseline.As for the erosion/scabs, I do gently rub off the loose areas, but doc strongly suggests not being aggresive until they are really ready because bacterial infection can readily take off and then you really can be in trouble  Again....I'm talking about large areas of skin on arms, not isolated face/scalp. Image of arm/hand with erosion:http://i32.tinypic.com/18ndy0.jpg Hang in there folks!  Whitey whitey1 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT You and your Dr. are right.  Not too aggressive of scrubbing is the key. I went a little hard on one on that is under my eye and it's not healing as well as the rest of my face.  I don't think it will scar, it will just look bad longer.  Jef1963 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Well, yesterday I almost quit...day 12 of 14 5-FU 2X's daily.   I was burning up.  Called my doctor and told him that I was using Vaseline.  He recommend that I try the Aquaphor instead.  Remembering what I read here I hesitated.  To make a long story short, we contacted Eucerin (Aquaphor) and the Pharmaceutical company to ease my mind.  Aquaphor is proven to be suitable for this treatment.  It does not interfere with treatment as long as you wait 3 hours before applying.  Efudex takes approximately 2-3 hours to be absorbed by the skin.Vaseline doesn't allow the skin to breathe as it acts as a protectant.  Which in turn makes it more difficult to wash.  Some people fare well with this.  I didn't, even though I was completely removing it with soft facial cloths and water. After trying the Aquaphor Friday afternoon I won't use anything else.  It is much easier to wash off and didn't keep the heat in which was HORRIBLE.  I feel wonderful and will be able to finish my treatment even though the doc said I could quit yesterday if I was that uncomfortable.  Two more applications for me.  My skin feels FANTASTIC!!I am one HAPPY, HAPPY GIRL!!!    SpankyB Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT I'm done with everything.  Small thin layers of dry skin are still evident but I no longer need the vaseline.  The redness has gone almost completely away and the swelling is minimal.  I slept soundly last night without any lotions or vaseline and am washing my cheap pillowcases, sheets and t-shirts today with rubbing alcohol, then a hot water wash with Dawn dish soap. Should be the end of it. Jef1963 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT That is good news!  Good luck with this second part - the healing!  I still have a long way to go - I am on day 11 of 30.  We will see if I make it. Alwaysinthesun Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Always, are you applying the Efudex twice daily for 30 days? Jeff, how long ago did you discontinue the Efudex? SpankyB Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Just to cheer up some of you slogging through the long days.  I completed 3 weeks on my face and 5 weeks on my chest in August of 2007.  I began in June of 2007.  There is no trace of the treatment at this point, other than soft smooth skin with many fewer spots.I also chose to drink water, exercise and use supplements.  I made sure I upped my Omega 3's (salmon every other day).  I also took Eleuthera (sp?) and Astragalus to help with some mild nausea and lack of appetitie.Although my doc prescribed Steroids I went with Aquaphor instead.  I peeled for 2 weeks after stopping and then by 6 weeks post treatment I had little visible red. I used Iburofen and  Benadryl to help me sleep.  Both cut down on the itching, the ibuprofen cut the pain, the benadryl made me sleepy.I 45 sun block everyday and a retinoid twice a week to continue turning over the old skin. I'm a Fitzgerald Type II (low). I am so thankful I was able to finish, and now that it is over thankful I did it.      Tracybird01 Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Traceybird,thanks for the encouragement.    I have been feeling like giving up - it is nice to hear that things get a lot better.  We have seen some pretty gruesome  pictures which I hope the the exception and not the norm.  I certainly will use sunscreen from now on.  As my name says, I am outside a lot - I like to kayak, bike ride, hike etc.  I'll still do those things, but slather up! Always in the sun Alwaysinthesun Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Spanky - I am doing 2 times/day for 30 days.  But will talkto the doctor tomorrow and ask about the length of time.  It seems like most of you guys are doing less time.  My condition did not seem real severe - so I am wondering about hte length of time.  I actual got the prescription back in late October.  The doctor suggested that I might want to wait until the holidays are over - then we went to Florida over the MLK weekend.  So I waited until 2/1 before I started.  So I haven't had a conversation with the doctor since October.  She didn't tell me anything.  She didn't even want to see my for two months following the treatment.  How about your doctor - when do you followup?Always Alwaysinthesun Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Always...my dermatologist made certain that I was to see him on day 15 or immediately if I had problems during TX.  Please, please...call your doctor immediately and make an appointment to be seen.  (the following was also posted to you on the FU-the dumb way thread)  Well, I finished yesterday 14 days 5% Efudex twice daily.  Today I saw my dermatologist and his reaction was..."I'm so glad you did this".  He was also surprised at how red I was. He froze several areas and prescribed Triamcinalone (trye-am-SIN-oh-lone) to apply now 3-4 times a day to reduce itching, inflamation and redness.  It feels wonderful!!!  After two applications I can see and feel the difference.  I'm aiming to be ready to "face" the world by Saturday.My reaction to the Efudex was severe according to the doc.  I cannot imagine going longer than 14 days.  I almost quit on day 12 but managed to get through by giving myself a break that night and going back with it the next morning.By the way, Aquaphor got me through the last 2 days.  It's lighter than Vaseline and easier to wash off.  I used Cetaphil cleanser, Olay sensitive skin cleansing cloths alternately.  I'm glad I use the cloths at night because it help remove the dry, flaking skin so the Efudex could do it's job on the underlying skin.Good luck to you both...hang in there.  Everything you hear about nicer skin is true!!  I can see it already 1 day post treatment.I'm a very happy girl!! SpankyB Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT  On 2/7/2008 Jef1963 wrote:Always in,I don't think anyone has to go through those extremes in the photoblogs.  I did look a bit like the bottom photo on myefudex.com for the last 5 days of my treatment.I never got the large areas of thick scabbing though and I believe that was because of the consistent debridement (scrubbing) and perhaps the shaving that took it off in thinner layers but more often.I think it makes a big difference to keep it moist with Vaseline when you're in the treatment. Jeff, excellent post. Are you able to help me with my questions?I have a SCC in Situ ( Bowen's Disease) on my chest. A spot. I completed my 7 weeks treatment of EFUDIX yesterday. My dermatologist suggested 7 weeks.How do I know if the EFUDIX has killed all the bad cells?The lesion is virtually still the same as it was during treatment.If I peel off that thin layer, the lesion begins to weep.Should I continue with EFUDIX.Is there a maximum time frame for treatment?  johnbr Mon, 01 Sep 2008 00:00:00 GMT