CancerCompass message board discussion started by TruthsKeeper on 2/11/2008 http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,20863,0.htm Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:00:00 GMT Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:00:00 GMT http://backend.userland.com/rss RSS.NET: http://www.rssdotnet.com/ Howdy all,So far it's not been too bad but tonight my husband said the spots I have looked faded, not quite as red.   I have had 2 dark spots (very small) come off completely and the remainders feel and look like skin abraisions that are crusting a bit.Is it common to have color fade or am I being lulled into the 'calm before the storm'?Truths TruthsKeeper Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Hi Truths...Have you had a follow-up visit with your dermatologist/doctor yet? SpankyB Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Hi Spanky,No follow up as yet but I do go in to the Dermo this Friday. I've noticed that today it seems a bit more colorful again.  Some seem to be lifting but not quite to the peel stage while others are dark and holding fast to my face.   I thought that just maybe the process was over for me.  We will see soon enough. Thanks for responding, Spanky.  It's nice to know the 'board' is still being replied to since I've noticed it seems a little barren of posters lately.I'll let you know what happens on Friday.Truths TruthsKeeper Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Sounds similiar to what I experienced using efudex.  About day 11, I noticed a few tiny deep brown spots.  Looked like tiny moles.  Then they seemed to fade or wash off completely.I think these are damaged cells that surface and peel away.  Are you done with treatment now?  The red flared for me also.  I would be flaming red after washing and applying the efudex.  Around day 12, I started to use Aquaphor to help ease the sting and this seemed to calm the "heat" thereby reducing the red.Good luck with the dermatologist on Friday.  SpankyB Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Truths, are you also a "face man/lady"?  5-FU does its work for the first weeks pretty much undetected until the "erosion" stage, when the bad DNA can't make the RNA for new cells and all start dying off, so the changes are normally going to be more dramatic about 14 to 21 days.  For me day 20 and my arms went nuts.  Face skin is different of course.  But don't be applying anything until at least 3 hours after applying the 5-FU so the drug can work first.  Regards,  Whitey whitey1 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Hello again,Spanky, I was told to go for 30 days and have applied the 15th time tonight, so far there is not much burn, itch or sting (Shhh, don't tell hubby, I like the attention).  The short term color flare up was from just a few minutes outdoors yesterday but it's already subsided.  I must have very few areas of concern because I appear to be somewhere between this persons (link below) day 5 and day 10 pictures..  and I'm on day 15.   http://www.sannerud.com/people/efudex/ My thoughts were that if fading so soon then perhaps there may not be a need to do anymore but the answer will come Friday. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Whitey,I am female and doing the entire face only with Carac. You mentioned that all cells start dying off. Do you mean it will strike the non-cancerous cells as well causing a complete skin regeneration wherever cream was applied?  As if to take the good away along with the bad?I use the Carac after dinner so if I need to use some cream I won't lose sleep waiting for 3 hours to pass. Also, I wash with plain water then use a damp face cloth to catch the drips and air dry for 20 minutes. That could be why I don't feel much discomfort  It's either that or maybe my skin is like a leather hockey mask, I'm not sure.(kidding)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Getting info from my Dermo is like trying to take the TV remote away from a toddler (Pharmacist isn't much better).  I asked for name of sunscreen and she told me that if I couldn't take it then to stop Carac and apply Hydrocortizone. Puzzled, I assumed she missed my querry and asked again received the same response.  Yep, toddler with a remote. I gave up and had hubby buy Eucerin Sensitive Facial Skin Lotion w/ SPF 30. He said it's my Valentines Day present.  lol    I believe I will also get the Aquaphor for days that I hibernate.This site has helped so very much. Straight forward information sharing.  Thank you all.  Truths TruthsKeeper Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT The difference between us, Truths, is that I used Efudex-stronger than Carac and applied it twice a day for 14.  Therefore I had 28 applications within that 2 week period (27 actually because on day 12 I skipped the nightime dose...ahhh I needed the break :)).My guess is that this week you will notice more reaction.  Keep the aquaphor handy and like Whitey said...wait three hours.Good luck!!(if i ever have to do this again I'm going to try the Carac as my derm said that you don't get quite as red). SpankyB Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT One more thing to add here...the patient in the photos you refer to in your posts was treated with Efudex 5% twice daily.  Therefore your comparison to his 5th day (10 applications) photo and your 15th day (15 applicataions) photo would probably be about right. Remember Carac is not as strong as the Efudex 5%.  The other thing we all need to take into consideration when comparing notes is that everyones skin texture, tone and damage is different.  SpankyB Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Spanky....your statement  "Remember Carac is not as strong as the Efudex 5%.  is not really accurate.  Again, Carac and Efudex are just the BRAND NAMES, of fluorouracil.  I used the generic and it was simply flourouracil 5%.  Yes, you can get different percentages/stregth and apply 1 or 2 times a day, etc.  But same drug.  Here is another simple description at this link:http://www.drugs.com/mtm/carac.html And no, not all cells die off, the point is the flourouracil targets the "bad" cells.  Just read up on floourouracil.  Google it.WhiteyAnd here is a good description on Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorouracil whitey1 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Thanks for hanging in there with me.  I did check the dosage and it is 0.5% (not .5%) used once a day and my damage must be minimal due to the number of reacive spots I have. It's natural for anyone to become unsettled by the use of this stuff as no matter what the severity of each case...  it's very personal.  Thanks for all the assistance.Spanky, I've read some of your blogs... my sympathies in dealing with so much troubles all at once.  Been there, done that.  I see you also have completed the treatments regardless of your concerns for other family members in delicate situations.  I applaud your emotional stamina during difficult times. I do believe the person of the link had therapy more intense than mine.  Good catch on the dosage differences and timeline comparisons.Whitey, The links you have shared are helpful since I am not a scientific personality.  I greatly appreciate the fact that you explained it simply and offered documentaion links in a simplistic form.  Kudos from all of us scientifically challenged people.   My impression was that this was similar to a chemical peel which effects all cells. Thanks for clarifying that only "bad" cells are targeted.From Wikipedia: "Like many anti-cancer drugs, 5-FU's effects are felt systemwide but falls most heavily upon rapidly dividing cells that make heavy use of their nucleotide synthesis machinery -- cancer cells, for instance".Does this mean that borderline cells in other parts of the body may be put into 'high gear' as a result of this treatment?  Do the scientists even know?Thanks,Truths TruthsKeeper Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT I thought Carac only came in .5% and Efudex in  2% and 5%.  So much confusion. http://www.chemocare.com/bio/fluorouracil_cream.asp  Interesting read..."The ability of chemotherapy to kill cancer cells depends on its ability to halt cell division.  Usually, the drugs work by damaging the RNA or DNA that tells the cell how to copy itself in division.  If the cells are unable to divide, they die.  The faster the cells are dividing, the more likely it is that chemotherapy will kill the cells, causing the tumor to shrink.  They also induce cell suicide (self-death or apoptosis).Chemotherapy drugs that affect cells only when they are dividing are called cell-cycle specific.  Chemotherapy drugs that affect cells when they are at rest are called cell-cycle non-specific.  The scheduling of chemotherapy is set based on the type of cells, rate at which they divide, and the time at which a given drug is likely to be effective.  This is why chemotherapy is typically given in cycles.Unfortunately, chemotherapy does not know the difference between the cancerous cells and the normal cells.  Chemotherapy will kill all cells that are rapidly dividing.  The "normal" cells will grow back and be healthy but in the meantime, side effects occur.  The "normal" cells most commonly affected by chemotherapy are the blood cells, the cells in the mouth, stomach and bowel, and the hair follicles; resulting in low blood counts, mouth sores, nausea, diarrhea, and/or hair loss.  Different drugs may affect different parts of the body.'   SpankyB Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Whitey, this information is in your link...Carac is a milder dosage than the Efudex.  Yes, same drug but different dosage. What does my medication look like?Fluorouracil topical is available as a cream or topical solution with a prescription under the brand names Fluoroplex, Efudex and Carac. Other brand or generic formulations may also be available. Ask your pharmacist any questions you have about this medication, especially if it is new to you.Carac 0.5%--creamFluoroplex 1%--creamFluoroplex 1%--topical solutionEfudex 2%--topical solutionEfudex 5%--topical solutionEfudex 5%--cream SpankyB Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Very excelletn question.  And from what I've read, they are "not sure".  5-FU topical is thought to not go "deep" enough to get into the other blood or lymphatic system, but no long-term results are in.  That being noted, most would feel that the amount, and time of treatment would not be harmful beyond it's intended use.  (We hope). Whitey whitey1 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Spanky, correct on strengths, same chemo.  I've been told that some folks "mix" the two over time, so that explains why.All I know for sure these days is my skin is still "enraged" nearly three weeks after end of TX.  But met someone this week who was encouraging and said skin will be smooth as a baby's behind soon.  Hope so. whitey1 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Whitey, I'm so sorry you are still in agony with your arms.  I'm on day four healing w/face and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Not a cake walk by any means.  The new skin looks great and when all the pink is gone and the peeling is done I'll be happy.  I must add that I wasn't dissatisfied with my "old" skin though.  My derm hasn't mentioned doing anything else...yet.  I don't know if I have it in me to do any more.  There has to be another way...perhaps I'll need a mild sedative/pain killer.  I don't know.  I was hoping the face was the worst and I got that behind me...but hearing your story makes me think twice about it.The one thing that really disturbs me is the nonchalanct attitude the doc's have over this treatment.  It was definitely more than I anticipated.  SpankyB Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Hi Yall,Sorry I'm late.  Double, triple checked the solution and it says 0.5% Carac.  Thanks for all your input.  Went to the Dermo on Friday and as usual... no info.  I'm still trying to get the remote away from the toddler!   She gets real close to giving the impression that I am 'supposed to know this stuff'.  I grow more weary each day. sigh.The redness and tenderness has grown again, it is still as a bad sunburn but localized. The peeling has begun.  I hold my breath waiting to see if the remaining skin will change to bright red.  So far, not much.  I started this treatment for AK's and now I see it's full blown Chemo and they don't know what the long term effects are?  I lost my father to esophegeal cancer some years ago and if this kicks in other cells then believe me.. I ain't a happy camper. My Friday visit? She removed a recently altered mole that turned black from skin color and also a hard ridged raised piece of skin from my wrist that was colorless. She had pretty much nothing for info sharing about Carac or what to expect.  She jumps over the questions too easily, changes the subject a lot.  I will be actively looking for a new Dermo as soon as I get the biopsy results.  As far as continuing the cream, her response was the same... if it hurts too much then stop Carac and use the hydrocortisone.  I'm beginning to think CrackerJacks played a big part in her getting a degree.I mentioned to her nurse the about sites with the photo diaries and at least one asked for the addy. This seems to me they have no prior knowledge of the actions of the cream and as I was leaving the receptionist called to her co-workers, 'look, look', as I walked by.  The first billing notice came and she is asking 252.00 for our first visit (minimal interaction) and she never once touched my body!  only wrote a scrip and set another appointment.  While it may be dealing with pre-cancers, I more strongly believe that some are experimenting with this drug and to hell with us as people.  What ever happened to their oath... 'above all do no harm'. They do not know the long term results of this. If I must come online to read about the effects because they don't know then the Dermo must be ignorant and acting irresponsibly by prescribing it.  Am I wrong? To date I have never been diagnosed with cancer of any kind.  Why prescribe a cancer cream that may have lifelong damaging results to my skin????? MY FACE!!!  I have a few unacceptable expletives at this point.Enough ranting, it's late here and I am going to sleep.  I will post again soon, hopefully in better spirits.  You people here are the only place I can get information.  Experience says so much. Thank You for being here and for understanding the full spectrum of issues involved.I'm too tired to check for typo's so please exuse any you find.Thanks again,Truths TruthsKeeper Mon, 18 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Amazing isn't it?  I'm feeling misguided.  Efudex has been around for a long time...Cancer runs rampant on both sides of my family.  I guess this is just the beginning of a new chapter in our lives.  Perfect title..."Let's Wait and See".  If I had known that they had no long term stats on this crap I wouldn't have used it.  I feel I did as much research as possible too.My dermatologist is highly rated...yet, I asked questions he dodged also.  Finally, I asked him if he has had quiet a few patients use this...he simply said yes.   Then I asked him if he personally had ever used it...his response was no, but one day I will need to.  WTF is he waiting for?  Statistics to determine WHICH cream is better, WHICH dosage is preferred?  How much, How long?  I had a sBCC removed...and a few AK's frozen.  Hindsight, perhaps just staying on top of proplem spots would have been better.Now wondering if I'm a guinea pig... SpankyB Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Hi Spanky,  I was going to stop my cream but with some new much smaller spots arising and peeling off I've decided to hang in there a bit longer.  There are 2 locations, my upper lip and the sides of my nose that would be obvious if they don't get finished. The nose skin feels thick like there is a coating of dried glue or something, it's getting thicker and just not peeling  Thank goodness the rest of my face is not getting solid red and painful like so many others here have been feeling.  Tonight made application 22 of 30.  I have needed sunscreen only once so far and it stung a wee bit and thus far only one night these spots  burned as I turned against the pillow. I have been truly fortunate. I'm still going to look for a new Dermo and this time communication skills will be a big part of my decision.  I heard (about a year ago) that the new doctors may have to not just pass their studies but may also be required to pass 'bedside manner'.  I sure hope they put that into action, then they would be held accountable for they way they communicate and interact with patients so if they have no people skills they don't get licensed.  Too bad they can't recertify the ones out here now under these rules!   TruthsKeeper Wed, 20 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT Hi Truths Keeper, I am on day 21 out of 28 with carac.05% cream applied 1x a day-The frustrating thing is that most of my face hase responded andry red-peeling in some spots-turning black scabs and falling off-also swelling esp under eyes-I wanted to stop but now finally my forehead is reacting-looking rather like the measles-am really mad about this cuz I was looking forward to literally throwing away the carac tube as of saturday-who knows maybe I just will cuz I just don't give a fart (nicer expression) anymore-But then a little echo says just to be brave and complete the treatment-I dunno I need support right now-tired of hibernating-thank God my mother n law is visiting until this monday or I would probably be talking to the walls or have odeeed on xanax and been blankly staring at the wall lol-Heather luvlivin Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT  Heather, Your reaction to carac 28 days 1X matches almost exactly to my reaction to 5-FU 14 day 2x per day.  My forehead was almost clear, then started splotching and spotting. But my cheeks and nose are what is worrying me, they are 90% dark red. They started out splotchy red, then it grew to all red.   I finish my treatment tommorrow, so I am writing to these boards in celebration.   Yahoo !!   OK, for those of you reading this in anticipation of starting your fist day of treatment.  You can do it.  I worried about this for 5 days b4 treatment, then finally started Day 1.  It was a breeze for the first week. Week 2 isn't too bad until you near day 10.  The pain is not unbearable, but constant.  Once you get to day 10 you can make it. I think I was more worried about the vanity aspect, and finally had to join the real world and get out of the house; found out that people are fine with it.  When you do go out, use it to others advantage. Inform anyone that will listen to wear hats SPF 30 or 45 wide spectrum sunscreen, and protect themselves from the sun. What you tell people today might be saving someones life 20 years from now. Plus, I am thankful that this is not permanent.OK, I'm getting tired, hitting the hay finally.  aceace Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:00:00 GMT  On 3/2/2008 aceace wrote: Heather, Your reaction to carac 28 days 1X matches almost exactly to my reaction to 5-FU 14 day 2x per day.  My forehead was almost clear, then started splotching and spotting. But my cheeks and nose are what is worrying me, they are 90% dark red. They started out splotchy red, then it grew to all red.   I finish my treatment tommorrow, so I am writing to these boards in celebration.   Yahoo !!   OK, for those of you reading this in anticipation of starting your fist day of treatment.  You can do it.  I worried about this for 5 days b4 treatment, then finally started Day 1.  It was a breeze for the first week. Week 2 isn't too bad until you near day 10.  The pain is not unbearable, but constant.  Once you get to day 10 you can make it. I think I was more worried about the vanity aspect, and finally had to join the real world and get out of the house; found out that people are fine with it.  When you do go out, use it to others advantage. Inform anyone that will listen to wear hats SPF 30 or 45 wide spectrum sunscreen, and protect themselves from the sun. What you tell people today might be saving someones life 20 years from now. Plus, I am thankful that this is not permanent.OK, I'm getting tired, hitting the hay finally. After reading the previous several messages on the board, I'm more than a little freaked out.  I had been following several peoples' stories.  The process sounded rough, but do-able.  I am on Day 6 of 14 in treatment.  I've committed to this, and now I'm reading that people are feeling like guinea pigs!  What's going on?  sarlattho Mon, 03 Mar 2008 00:00:00 GMT