CancerCompass message board discussion started by Debimac on 1/14/2007 http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,8834,0.htm Wed, 08 Oct 2008 00:00:00 GMT Wed, 08 Oct 2008 00:00:00 GMT http://backend.userland.com/rss RSS.NET: http://www.rssdotnet.com/ This website is such a wonderful find!  My 15+ year old bischon, Bonnie, was diagnosed with TCC last week.  We have been struggling for days over what to do.  Our vet originally recommended surgery.  After much research, I decided no way.  All that I read, showed no benefit and, perhaps, a possible negative - seeding - spreading the cancer. (Also possible with a needle biopsy.  Go to the Purdue Study on Scotties. )   I suggested  Piroxicam as an alternative to our vet, which he has taken the time to research.  He is having a dosage compounded at our local pharmacy especially for Bonnie.  After reading all of these letters, I was so  happy to hear about the other meds and herbal supplements that we can use.   I am curious as to changing her diet.  I have read about eliminating carbs.  She has been on Presciption diet ID for years.   I am also interested in the herbal supplements - echinacae, goldenseal and flax seed oil.  Any more results?  Bonnie has been my best friend for all of her life.  It is so hard to make decisions for someone you love so much.  She is so active and lively.  She doesn't display any of the "bad" effects of this disease.  I can't believe this is happening.  This is a horrible road to go down with no good ending.  I pray for all of us and our "friends".  Debi Debimac Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hi Debi..I am sorry to hear the news.My dog DAISY was diagnosed 12/18/06 and a month prior had he symptoms of long urination.  She is in great health otherwise.  The VetSpecialist of San Diego told us she has 2 months to a year to live (her tumor is only 3/4 of an inch in her bladder (inoperable) SO peroxicam was his only suggesion.  I was proactive and went online to seek alternatve Holistic remedies and found Dr. Budwig ( lived to be 5 ys herself) claiming flaxoil and cottage cheese reduces and possibly gets rid of the tumor altogether.  DAISY has shown very good signs thus far since 12/22.  Right before X-mas we noticed she was running to us for help and didn't want to eat  meal. I immediately gave her this mix 3-4 times a day and she is HAPPY as ever even thought she still takes a long time to pee.  It may take awhile, but I am hopeful iis doingsomething beneficial.In addition, to build her immune system I put her on a raw food )meat diet once a day alsoiving her chicken with the broth,vegetable ike broccoli and  little brown rice.  They say stay away from kibbles.  Also vitamin c, e, b6,12 in conjunction with the cottage cheese..try it and let me know how your doggie does..Daisy is only 10 yrs old a bearded collie sheepdog and we decided not to give her peroxicam at this time..good luck hope this helps and if you hear anything please let me know. Sandi  On 1/14/2007 Debimac wrote:This website is such a wonderful find!  My 15+ year old bischon, Bonnie, was diagnosed with TCC last week.  We have been struggling for days over what to do.  Our vet originally recommended surgery.  After much research, I decided no way.  All that I read, showed no benefit and, perhaps, a possible negative - seeding - spreading the cancer. (Also possible with a needle biopsy.  Go to the Purdue Study on Scotties. )   I suggested  Piroxicam as an alternative to our vet, which he has taken the time to research.  He is having a dosage compounded at our local pharmacy especially for Bonnie.  After reading all of these letters, I was so  happy to hear about the other meds and herbal supplements that we can use.   I am curious as to changing her diet.  I have read about eliminating carbs.  She has been on Presciption diet ID for years.   I am also interested in the herbal supplements - echinacae, goldenseal and flax seed oil.  Any more results?  Bonnie has been my best friend for all of her life.  It is so hard to make decisions for someone you love so much.  She is so active and lively.  She doesn't display any of the "bad" effects of this disease.  I can't believe this is happening.  This is a horrible road to go down with no good ending.  I pray for all of us and our "friends".  Debi  Doodlebug Mon, 15 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT  On 1/15/2007 Doodlebug wrote:Hi Debi..I am sorry to hear the news.My dog DAISY was diagnosed 12/18/06 and a month prior had he symptoms of long urination.  She is in great health otherwise.  The VetSpecialist of San Diego told us she has 2 months to a year to live (her tumor is only 3/4 of an inch in her bladder (inoperable) SO peroxicam was his only suggesion.  I was proactive and went online to seek alternatve Holistic remedies and found Dr. Budwig ( lived to be 5 ys herself) claiming flaxoil and cottage cheese reduces and possibly gets rid of the tumor altogether.  DAISY has shown very good signs thus far since 12/22.  Right before X-mas we noticed she was running to us for help and didn't want to eat  meal. I immediately gave her this mix 3-4 times a day and she is HAPPY as ever even thought she still takes a long time to pee.  It may take awhile, but I am hopeful iis doingsomething beneficial.In addition, to build her immune system I put her on a raw food )meat diet once a day alsoiving her chicken with the broth,vegetable ike broccoli and  little brown rice.  They say stay away from kibbles.  Also vitamin c, e, b6,12 in conjunction with the cottage cheese..try it and let me know how your doggie does..Daisy is only 10 yrs old a bearded collie sheepdog and we decided not to give her peroxicam at this time..good luck hope this helps and if you hear anything please let me know. Sandi On 1/14/2007 Debimac wrote:This website is such a wonderful find!  My 15+ year old bischon, Bonnie, was diagnosed with TCC last week.  We have been struggling for days over what to do.  Our vet originally recommended surgery.  After much research, I decided no way.  All that I read, showed no benefit and, perhaps, a possible negative - seeding - spreading the cancer. (Also possible with a needle biopsy.  Go to the Purdue Study on Scotties. )   I suggested  Piroxicam as an alternative to our vet, which he has taken the time to research.  He is having a dosage compounded at our local pharmacy especially for Bonnie.  After reading all of these letters, I was so  happy to hear about the other meds and herbal supplements that we can use.   I am curious as to changing her diet.  I have read about eliminating carbs.  She has been on Presciption diet ID for years.   I am also interested in the herbal supplements - echinacae, goldenseal and flax seed oil.  Any more results?  Bonnie has been my best friend for all of her life.  It is so hard to make decisions for someone you love so much.  She is so active and lively.  She doesn't display any of the "bad" effects of this disease.  I can't believe this is happening.  This is a horrible road to go down with no good ending.  I pray for all of us and our "friends".  Debi  Hi Sandi,THanks for your reply.  Isn't this website a true comfort!  I spoke with our vet today and mentioned all I had learned about herbal supplements, changing diet and vitamins.  He was very supportive of adding E and B (actually any antioxidant) and Flax Oil to Bonnie's diet.  He did recommend to do it slowly so as not to upset her stomach.   Do you have any dosage info on the vitamins and flaxoil combo?  He was vague.  Bonnie loves cottage cheese so I know I can get her to eat that.  He said an all meat/vegie diet was fine but  for me to do it gradually so she can adjust.  At this point, like you, I am up to trying anything to make her life more comfortable, and, hopefully,  last longer than the 6 months they have given her. Oh, he also told me to give her  a daily dog vitamin.  What kind of treats do you use? I hope Daisy and you are having a good day. Debi Debimac Mon, 15 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hello Debi..This is what I am doing and seriously on 12/22 she was not wanting to eat and ran to my mom for help..I immediately went online and google searched bladder cancer cures canines holistic and there I found a website: www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com    I read that a mix of 1/4-1/2 cup cottage cheese with 100% flaxoil in a bottle not capsules  you get it at a health food store ( highest Ligna content and organic) 1 tablespoon with the cottage cheese ( I give this to her 3-4 times a day) AND just started giving her a multivitamin with an extra vitamin C to boost her immune system. Plus I give her raw meat once a day (has more vitamins)mix chicken broth& brocolli, little brown rice with her dinner and even wet food So mixed in the wet I mix this vitamin mixture (it's an herbal vitamin)for dogs with the Vit. C and a little water .start with small amount fotwo weeks..I just started this yesterday. And as treats well we alo give her asome chicken breast that we cook boiled..she hs her appetite and seemsto be doing very well !!  I did not put her on piroxicam.  I am waiting to see if this tumor shrinks with her next ultrasound in Feb.  Let me know how your doggie responds.  Many vets just give us advice with meds...but take a look at this site and others as I have it truly an eye opener !!! Keep in touch DebiSandi  Doodlebug Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hello Debi..This is what I am doing and seriously on 12/22 she was not wanting to eat and ran to my mom for help..I immediately went online and google searched bladder cancer cures canines holistic and there I found a website: www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com    I read that a mix of 1/4-1/2 cup cottage cheese with 100% flaxoil in a bottle not capsules  you get it at a health food store ( highest Ligna content and organic) 1 tablespoon with the cottage cheese ( I give this to her 3-4 times a day) AND just started giving her a multivitamin with an extra vitamin C to boost her immune system. Plus I give her raw meat once a day (has more vitamins)mix chicken broth& brocolli, little brown rice with her dinner and even wet food So mixed in the wet I mix this vitamin mixture (it's an herbal vitamin)for dogs with the Vit. C and a little water .start with small amount fotwo weeks..I just started this yesterday. And as treats well we alo give her asome chicken breast that we cook boiled..she hs her appetite and seemsto be doing very well !!  I did not put her on piroxicam.  I am waiting to see if this tumor shrinks with her next ultrasound in Feb.  Let me know how your doggie responds.  Many vets just give us advice with meds...but take a look at this site and others as I have it truly an eye opener !!! Keep in touch DebiSandi  Doodlebug Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hello Debi..This is what I am doing and seriously on 12/22 she was not wanting to eat and ran to my mom for help..I immediately went online and google searched bladder cancer cures canines holistic and there I found a website: www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com    I read that a mix of 1/4-1/2 cup cottage cheese with 100% flaxoil in a bottle not capsules  you get it at a health food store ( highest Ligna content and organic) 1 tablespoon with the cottage cheese ( I give this to her 3-4 times a day) AND just started giving her a multivitamin with an extra vitamin C to boost her immune system. Plus I give her raw meat once a day (has more vitamins)mix chicken broth& brocolli, little brown rice with her dinner and even wet food So mixed in the wet I mix this vitamin mixture (it's an herbal vitamin)for dogs with the Vit. C and a little water .start with small amount fotwo weeks..I just started this yesterday. And as treats well we alo give her asome chicken breast that we cook boiled..she hs her appetite and seemsto be doing very well !!  I did not put her on piroxicam.  I am waiting to see if this tumor shrinks with her next ultrasound in Feb.  Let me know how your doggie responds.  Many vets just give us advice with meds...but take a look at this site and others as I have it truly an eye opener !!! Keep in touch DebiSandi  Doodlebug Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hello Debi..This is what I am doing and seriously on 12/22 she was not wanting to eat and ran to my mom for help..I immediately went online and google searched bladder cancer cures canines holistic and there I found a website: www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com    I read that a mix of 1/4-1/2 cup cottage cheese with 100% flaxoil in a bottle not capsules  you get it at a health food store ( highest Ligna content and organic) 1 tablespoon with the cottage cheese ( I give this to her 3-4 times a day) AND just started giving her a multivitamin with an extra vitamin C to boost her immune system. Plus I give her raw meat once a day (has more vitamins)mix chicken broth& brocolli, little brown rice with her dinner and even wet food So mixed in the wet I mix this vitamin mixture (it's an herbal vitamin)for dogs with the Vit. C and a little water .start with small amount fotwo weeks..I just started this yesterday. And as treats well we alo give her asome chicken breast that we cook boiled..she hs her appetite and seemsto be doing very well !!  I did not put her on piroxicam.  I am waiting to see if this tumor shrinks with her next ultrasound in Feb.  Let me know how your doggie responds.  Many vets just give us advice with meds...but take a look at this site and others as I have it truly an eye opener !!! Keep in touch DebiSandi  Doodlebug Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Thanks for the great info.  I am off to the health food store tomorrow to buy supplements.  As I said, my vet advised to gradually add the them so as not to upset her stomach.  I'll let you know how she reacts.  It is so hard.  She runs and plays and acts like nothing is wrong, except when she has to urinate.  It just makes me want to cry.   Bonnie's Mom Debimac Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Thanks for the great info.  I am off to the health food store tomorrow to buy supplements.  As I said, my vet advised to gradually add the them so as not to upset her stomach.  I'll let you know how she reacts.  It is so hard.  She runs and plays and acts like nothing is wrong, except when she has to urinate.  It just makes me want to cry.   Bonnie's Mom Debimac Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT For those of you needing advice I read K9 Immunity REALLY helps to fight cancer, and I am having it shipped overnight tome ..go to:  www.alohamedicinals.com  or call 1877-508-1077 Good luck- Sandi & my Dog DAISY   Doodlebug Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Dear Pet Owners:  I am the owner of a 12 yr old Austraslian Shepherd mix. His name is Boomer. He was diagnosed with transition cell carcinoma (bladder cancer I believe)  this past spring. I have been all over the internet trying to get more information on this disease. It is like you have all said the hardest thing for  a pet owner to do, is watch their pet suffer.  I just would like to know how or  when it will be time. He has been on Piroxicam for 3 mnths.  He has no apetite for dog food unless there is a treat or people food mixed in with it. He is lethargic an needs to pee about every 2 hrs.   He is also having problems with his bowel movements. Otherwise he seems ok, with the exception that he vomitted today. I just would like some advice as to what  the symptoms are during their last days. I, like everyone else do not want my dog to suffer. Also if there are any other support groups/books we can look into to help ease the pain (for us).  He has been like a child to me for 12 years. I am going to be crushed when he goes to sleep in my arms forever. Thanx Rhea & Boomie Roupii Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Hello Debi...my 14 yr old golden retriever was just diagnosed with TCC...was wondering if you could possibly share the info you have discovered while researching...am open to anything!On 1/14/2007 Debimac wrote:This website is such a wonderful find!  My 15+ year old bischon, Bonnie, was diagnosed with TCC last week.  We have been struggling for days over what to do.  Our vet originally recommended surgery.  After much research, I decided no way.  All that I read, showed no benefit and, perhaps, a possible negative - seeding - spreading the cancer. (Also possible with a needle biopsy.  Go to the Purdue Study on Scotties. )   I suggested  Piroxicam as an alternative to our vet, which he has taken the time to research.  He is having a dosage compounded at our local pharmacy especially for Bonnie.  After reading all of these letters, I was so  happy to hear about the other meds and herbal supplements that we can use.   I am curious as to changing her diet.  I have read about eliminating carbs.  She has been on Presciption diet ID for years.   I am also interested in the herbal supplements - echinacae, goldenseal and flax seed oil.  Any more results?  Bonnie has been my best friend for all of her life.  It is so hard to make decisions for someone you love so much.  She is so active and lively.  She doesn't display any of the "bad" effects of this disease.  I can't believe this is happening.  This is a horrible road to go down with no good ending.  I pray for all of us and our "friends".  Debi  Debbielou Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT  On 1/24/2007 Debbielou wrote:Hello Debi...my 14 yr old golden retriever was just diagnosed with TCC...was wondering if you could possibly share the info you have discovered while researching...am open to anything!On 1/14/2007 Debimac wrote:This website is such a wonderful find!  My 15+ year old bischon, Bonnie, was diagnosed with TCC last week.  We have been struggling for days over what to do.  Our vet originally recommended surgery.  After much research, I decided no way.  All that I read, showed no benefit and, perhaps, a possible negative - seeding - spreading the cancer. (Also possible with a needle biopsy.  Go to the Purdue Study on Scotties. )   I suggested  Piroxicam as an alternative to our vet, which he has taken the time to research.  He is having a dosage compounded at our local pharmacy especially for Bonnie.  After reading all of these letters, I was so  happy to hear about the other meds and herbal supplements that we can use.   I am curious as to changing her diet.  I have read about eliminating carbs.  She has been on Presciption diet ID for years.   I am also interested in the herbal supplements - echinacae, goldenseal and flax seed oil.  Any more results?  Bonnie has been my best friend for all of her life.  It is so hard to make decisions for someone you love so much.  She is so active and lively.  She doesn't display any of the "bad" effects of this disease.  I can't believe this is happening.  This is a horrible road to go down with no good ending.  I pray for all of us and our "friends".  DebiI am so sorry to hear about your Golden.  I know how devasting that information is.  As for what I have learned, surgery just didn't sound very promising.  Even my vet admitted that out of 50 procedures, his success rate of eliminating the cancer was only 5.   It is very aggressive and fast growing. I have Bonnie taking 2mg of piroxicam a day with food.  Tests have shown it can shrink the growths and help relieve the symptoms. I also discussed Bonnie's diagnosis with our previous vet and he highly recommended the Piroxicam.  It has to be compounded by a pharmacist for her size.  She also takes 1ml 3X/day of misoprostol for her stomach.  Piroxicam can cause stomach problems.  My research has caused me to drastically change her diet slowly.  We are eliminating as many carbs as we can.  They feed the cancer.  My goal will be to have her eating meat and vegies only which I have been preparing.  I either bake or boil the meat to cut down on the fat.  My vet also recommended a good canine multi vitamin to help boost her immune system.   She also gets the following daily:  1/8 tsp. Cod liver oil, 1/4 tsp. D-zyme Powder (by Solid Gold), and acidophilus (to help with the antibiotics she is on).  I will be adding a combo of echinacea and goldenseal drops within the next week.   I have been warned that this stuff really "stinks" so it might be a challenge to administer.  I spent a long time at our health food store discussing all of these supplements with a very informative salesperson and feel really good about what I learned.  All of these vitamins and supplements help boost their immune system and help fight the cancer.  She is really loving her new diet and acts perfectly fine; except when she has to urinate.  It is so hard to believe she is sick.  She has been on this program for less than 2 weeks, so I haven't seen any marked improvement but am hopeful.  I read it can take up to a month for the piroxicam to shrink the growths.  She has 2 areas of concern and one is in the trigone area.  Hope this was helpful.  If you learn anything else, please let me know.  At this point, I just want her to be happy and painless.  Bonnie's Mom  Debimac Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT  On 1/19/2007 Roupii wrote:Dear Pet Owners:  I am the owner of a 12 yr old Austraslian Shepherd mix. His name is Boomer. He was diagnosed with transition cell carcinoma (bladder cancer I believe)  this past spring. I have been all over the internet trying to get more information on this disease. It is like you have all said the hardest thing for  a pet owner to do, is watch their pet suffer.  I just would like to know how or  when it will be time. He has been on Piroxicam for 3 mnths.  He has no apetite for dog food unless there is a treat or people food mixed in with it. He is lethargic an needs to pee about every 2 hrs.   He is also having problems with his bowel movements. Otherwise he seems ok, with the exception that he vomitted today. I just would like some advice as to what  the symptoms are during their last days. I, like everyone else do not want my dog to suffer. Also if there are any other support groups/books we can look into to help ease the pain (for us).  He has been like a child to me for 12 years. I am going to be crushed when he goes to sleep in my arms forever. Thanx Rhea & Boomie Dear Rhea,I'm sorry to hear about the diagnosis you and your beloved Boomer had to experience. I well remember the day we heard the same news about our also 12 year old Oggie, an otherwise healthy terrier mix (mystery breed - she was dumped from a car - their cruel stupidity ; our wonderful luck!)Oggie was diagnosed in January of 2000. The tumor was about 1 cm (which the vet said was considered large), located on the "neck" of the bladder, and was technically transitional cell bladder cancer. We were advised to put her on one course of antibiotic for any infection there might be, and piroxicam to alleviate the bladder irritation.   (I can't actually remember everything the piroxicam, also known as feldene - a human arthritis drug - is supposed to do for canine bladder cancer. I actually found your message while looking up info on piroxicam to see if it would help my parents' 14 year old fox terrier's incontinence.)With this regime we were given a prognosis of about nine months of life.  We found the best dog cancer vet in the area, who told us about the various chemo and radiation options available. She said it was possible we could extend her life with more treatment, and so we picked three sessions of mitoxantrone. She had no bad effects from the chemo (dogs do better on chemo than humans we were told, and this particular drug is supposed to be esp. mild as far as side effects).  Unfortunately, as both vets had warned us, our precious girl stayed with us almost exactly nine months to the day.You wanted to know what the symptoms were like at the end:  we found a vet early on to "stand by" so we could have her sent to dog heaven without going to any scary vet offices.  The piroxicam helped alleviate the constant need to pee problem that seemed to really bother her in the beginning.  We had a good last nine months, with walks and good appetite, good comfort.  We wanted to make sure she didn't suffer, so watched for any signs of pain.  Finally one afternoon she vomited what looked like coffee grounds - the classical appearance of blood in the vomitus.  The rest of the evening she "hid" under a table in the living room and whimpered a litle.  We took her to the after hours vet at our clinic who did ultrasound or xray which seemed to show a rupture starting in the stomach. We declined euthanasia which was recommended and stayed up with her all night at home to be with her and try to figure out if it was her time to go.  She wanted to kind of hide behind the toilet (dogs seem to find comfort in bathrooms - during thunderstorms etc - vets think it's the cool floors and fixtures and little "den" size of most bathrooms). Towards morning she made her first clear sounds of pain so we took her to our vet just as they were opening, and he came out to the car so she could go to dog heaven directly from her favorite place. He gave her a sedative and then when she was very sleepy, a very quick injection of whatever it is they use. He urged me to kiss her quickly, as it really is as quick as one breath, with no distress whatsoever for the dog.  But any human along for the ride should have someone strong along to help the vet take the pup from that point while you turn your back to not see her leave. That's the one sight I wish I had not seen - the lifting out of the car etc.  Other than that it went as peacefully as could be.  On the way to the vet we stopped in a drive'thru and bought a hamburger and sausage patty for Oggie (who LOOOOOVED to eat) and were rewarded with tail wags and delighted sniffing of the food which made the trip much easier to bear. We realized the time was right -- she was too ill to be able to eat anymore, but not suffering so that she was too distressed to show any interest in food.You are too far away from needing this kind of advice so I hope I haven't upset you too much.  I will add just one thing that comforts me so much, and that is saving locks of my pets' hair along with their collars. I even  find stuffed toy animals that look like them and put their collars on them but that may be too wacky for you!  I've heard of some people who make paw prints to save with their mementos and I think that's a nice idea too.  Keeping piles of photos around to look at is incredibly helpful too. I sent a bereavement notice out and was very comforted by the cards and notes I received from Oggie's many fans.The one other thing I should impress upon you from my experience is that I decided to take Oggie to a naturopathic vet after the chemo didn't shrink the tumor.  He told me that there were things I could have done if I had not done the chemo, but that the chemo had made these natural remedies impossible.  It just depends on how each person and their dog feels about taking a lot of pills and potions with a restricted diet, as naturopathic regimes for cancer can be pretty extreme. So even though we did it the way we did, I don't regret the chemo. I think that way she had much less disruption to her life. Some dogs may not mind but Miss Oggie definitely hated to be pilled. We did do several homeopathic things through the naturopathic vet but I can't tell you whether or not they made any difference. The ones I did were non-invasive and tasteless kinds of nutritional and immune boosters. I won't look them up for you as it was 7 years ago and there are probably other and better treatments by now.I know a lot of people whose pets have cancer say acupuncture is great, but the one time I tried it it was a horrible fiasco, with Oggie crying out more than I've ever heard her. The guy was supposed to be very good, so I don't know what the story was there.  I'd say look into it though as I've heard so much good about it. We may have just had a bad day. Oggie did also cry during the ultrasound, so she may have been "complaining" rather than been in real pain, but she sounded like she was really hating it!!We have a new rescue pup now, also an Aussie mix, 7 mo old Luna. We are looking in her eyes and are just about ready to conclude that Oggie has come back to us in Aussie form.  Something about the way she eyes our food and actually "borrows" food off our plates...My very best to Boomie and to you. I hope you find the best vet around and that everything goes as smoothly as possible. Vivia Boe, Seattle Vivia Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT  On 1/26/2007 Vivia wrote: On 1/19/2007 Roupii wrote:Dear Pet Owners:  I am the owner of a 12 yr old Austraslian Shepherd mix. His name is Boomer. He was diagnosed with transition cell carcinoma (bladder cancer I believe)  this past spring. I have been all over the internet trying to get more information on this disease. It is like you have all said the hardest thing for  a pet owner to do, is watch their pet suffer.  I just would like to know how or  when it will be time. He has been on Piroxicam for 3 mnths.  He has no apetite for dog food unless there is a treat or people food mixed in with it. He is lethargic an needs to pee about every 2 hrs.   He is also having problems with his bowel movements. Otherwise he seems ok, with the exception that he vomitted today. I just would like some advice as to what  the symptoms are during their last days. I, like everyone else do not want my dog to suffer. Also if there are any other support groups/books we can look into to help ease the pain (for us).  He has been like a child to me for 12 years. I am going to be crushed when he goes to sleep in my arms forever. Thanx Rhea & Boomie Dear Rhea,I'm sorry to hear about the diagnosis you and your beloved Boomer had to experience. I well remember the day we heard the same news about our also 12 year old Oggie, an otherwise healthy terrier mix (mystery breed - she was dumped from a car - their cruel stupidity ; our wonderful luck!)Oggie was diagnosed in January of 2000. The tumor was about 1 cm (which the vet said was considered large), located on the "neck" of the bladder, and was technically transitional cell bladder cancer. We were advised to put her on one course of antibiotic for any infection there might be, and piroxicam to alleviate the bladder irritation.   (I can't actually remember everything the piroxicam, also known as feldene - a human arthritis drug - is supposed to do for canine bladder cancer. I actually found your message while looking up info on piroxicam to see if it would help my parents' 14 year old fox terrier's incontinence.)With this regime we were given a prognosis of about nine months of life.  We found the best dog cancer vet in the area, who told us about the various chemo and radiation options available. She said it was possible we could extend her life with more treatment, and so we picked three sessions of mitoxantrone. She had no bad effects from the chemo (dogs do better on chemo than humans we were told, and this particular drug is supposed to be esp. mild as far as side effects).  Unfortunately, as both vets had warned us, our precious girl stayed with us almost exactly nine months to the day.You wanted to know what the symptoms were like at the end:  we found a vet early on to "stand by" so we could have her sent to dog heaven without going to any scary vet offices.  The piroxicam helped alleviate the constant need to pee problem that seemed to really bother her in the beginning.  We had a good last nine months, with walks and good appetite, good comfort.  We wanted to make sure she didn't suffer, so watched for any signs of pain.  Finally one afternoon she vomited what looked like coffee grounds - the classical appearance of blood in the vomitus.  The rest of the evening she "hid" under a table in the living room and whimpered a litle.  We took her to the after hours vet at our clinic who did ultrasound or xray which seemed to show a rupture starting in the stomach. We declined euthanasia which was recommended and stayed up with her all night at home to be with her and try to figure out if it was her time to go.  She wanted to kind of hide behind the toilet (dogs seem to find comfort in bathrooms - during thunderstorms etc - vets think it's the cool floors and fixtures and little "den" size of most bathrooms). Towards morning she made her first clear sounds of pain so we took her to our vet just as they were opening, and he came out to the car so she could go to dog heaven directly from her favorite place. He gave her a sedative and then when she was very sleepy, a very quick injection of whatever it is they use. He urged me to kiss her quickly, as it really is as quick as one breath, with no distress whatsoever for the dog.  But any human along for the ride should have someone strong along to help the vet take the pup from that point while you turn your back to not see her leave. That's the one sight I wish I had not seen - the lifting out of the car etc.  Other than that it went as peacefully as could be.  On the way to the vet we stopped in a drive'thru and bought a hamburger and sausage patty for Oggie (who LOOOOOVED to eat) and were rewarded with tail wags and delighted sniffing of the food which made the trip much easier to bear. We realized the time was right -- she was too ill to be able to eat anymore, but not suffering so that she was too distressed to show any interest in food.You are too far away from needing this kind of advice so I hope I haven't upset you too much.  I will add just one thing that comforts me so much, and that is saving locks of my pets' hair along with their collars. I even  find stuffed toy animals that look like them and put their collars on them but that may be too wacky for you!  I've heard of some people who make paw prints to save with their mementos and I think that's a nice idea too.  Keeping piles of photos around to look at is incredibly helpful too. I sent a bereavement notice out and was very comforted by the cards and notes I received from Oggie's many fans.The one other thing I should impress upon you from my experience is that I decided to take Oggie to a naturopathic vet after the chemo didn't shrink the tumor.  He told me that there were things I could have done if I had not done the chemo, but that the chemo had made these natural remedies impossible.  It just depends on how each person and their dog feels about taking a lot of pills and potions with a restricted diet, as naturopathic regimes for cancer can be pretty extreme. So even though we did it the way we did, I don't regret the chemo. I think that way she had much less disruption to her life. Some dogs may not mind but Miss Oggie definitely hated to be pilled. We did do several homeopathic things through the naturopathic vet but I can't tell you whether or not they made any difference. The ones I did were non-invasive and tasteless kinds of nutritional and immune boosters. I won't look them up for you as it was 7 years ago and there are probably other and better treatments by now.I know a lot of people whose pets have cancer say acupuncture is great, but the one time I tried it it was a horrible fiasco, with Oggie crying out more than I've ever heard her. The guy was supposed to be very good, so I don't know what the story was there.  I'd say look into it though as I've heard so much good about it. We may have just had a bad day. Oggie did also cry during the ultrasound, so she may have been "complaining" rather than been in real pain, but she sounded like she was really hating it!!We have a new rescue pup now, also an Aussie mix, 7 mo old Luna. We are looking in her eyes and are just about ready to conclude that Oggie has come back to us in Aussie form.  Something about the way she eyes our food and actually "borrows" food off our plates...My very best to Boomie and to you. I hope you find the best vet around and that everything goes as smoothly as possible. Vivia Boe, Seattle  Roupii Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT Dear Vivia  Thank you so much for responding to my message you were the ONLY one that did. I think Boomer is failing quickly. He is very lethargic, he is loosing his urine before he gets out the door. His apetite is good however. It is very difficult to make the decision. I do not want to cut his life short, I also do not want him to suffer. I also do not want to keep him around just for my benefit, that seems selfish and merciless. He does not appear to be in any pain,,and like I mentioned he is still eating. ..People food no interest in dog food.  Unfortunately I am financially unable to provide Boomer with the latest remedies and chemo. His vet is wonderful cannot complain there. I guess we have to keep a close eye on him. Somedays he'll make it thru the nite and others he won't. Thanx again for all the advice. I plan to keep some of his hair and his collar. The paw print was a very nice idea, thanx. Good luck with your Luna, give her a belly rub from me and Boom. :) My Boomer has been a phenomenal and very smart pet. You will enjoy the Aussie. A nd as they say we will all be together again at some point. Hope he'll be waiting for me on the other side. I know I 'll be looking for him. Thank you ViviaRhea & BoomerOn 1/26/2007 Vivia wrote: On 1/19/2007 Roupii wrote:Dear Pet Owners:  I am the owner of a 12 yr old Austraslian Shepherd mix. His name is Boomer. He was diagnosed with transition cell carcinoma (bladder cancer I believe)  this past spring. I have been all over the internet trying to get more information on this disease. It is like you have all said the hardest thing for  a pet owner to do, is watch their pet suffer.  I just would like to know how or  when it will be time. He has been on Piroxicam for 3 mnths.  He has no apetite for dog food unless there is a treat or people food mixed in with it. He is lethargic an needs to pee about every 2 hrs.   He is also having problems with his bowel movements. Otherwise he seems ok, with the exception that he vomitted today. I just would like some advice as to what  the symptoms are during their last days. I, like everyone else do not want my dog to suffer. Also if there are any other support groups/books we can look into to help ease the pain (for us).  He has been like a child to me for 12 years. I am going to be crushed when he goes to sleep in my arms forever. Thanx Rhea & Boomie Dear Rhea,I'm sorry to hear about the diagnosis you and your beloved Boomer had to experience. I well remember the day we heard the same news about our also 12 year old Oggie, an otherwise healthy terrier mix (mystery breed - she was dumped from a car - their cruel stupidity ; our wonderful luck!)Oggie was diagnosed in January of 2000. The tumor was about 1 cm (which the vet said was considered large), located on the "neck" of the bladder, and was technically transitional cell bladder cancer. We were advised to put her on one course of antibiotic for any infection there might be, and piroxicam to alleviate the bladder irritation.   (I can't actually remember everything the piroxicam, also known as feldene - a human arthritis drug - is supposed to do for canine bladder cancer. I actually found your message while looking up info on piroxicam to see if it would help my parents' 14 year old fox terrier's incontinence.)With this regime we were given a prognosis of about nine months of life.  We found the best dog cancer vet in the area, who told us about the various chemo and radiation options available. She said it was possible we could extend her life with more treatment, and so we picked three sessions of mitoxantrone. She had no bad effects from the chemo (dogs do better on chemo than humans we were told, and this particular drug is supposed to be esp. mild as far as side effects).  Unfortunately, as both vets had warned us, our precious girl stayed with us almost exactly nine months to the day.You wanted to know what the symptoms were like at the end:  we found a vet early on to "stand by" so we could have her sent to dog heaven without going to any scary vet offices.  The piroxicam helped alleviate the constant need to pee problem that seemed to really bother her in the beginning.  We had a good last nine months, with walks and good appetite, good comfort.  We wanted to make sure she didn't suffer, so watched for any signs of pain.  Finally one afternoon she vomited what looked like coffee grounds - the classical appearance of blood in the vomitus.  The rest of the evening she "hid" under a table in the living room and whimpered a litle.  We took her to the after hours vet at our clinic who did ultrasound or xray which seemed to show a rupture starting in the stomach. We declined euthanasia which was recommended and stayed up with her all night at home to be with her and try to figure out if it was her time to go.  She wanted to kind of hide behind the toilet (dogs seem to find comfort in bathrooms - during thunderstorms etc - vets think it's the cool floors and fixtures and little "den" size of most bathrooms). Towards morning she made her first clear sounds of pain so we took her to our vet just as they were opening, and he came out to the car so she could go to dog heaven directly from her favorite place. He gave her a sedative and then when she was very sleepy, a very quick injection of whatever it is they use. He urged me to kiss her quickly, as it really is as quick as one breath, with no distress whatsoever for the dog.  But any human along for the ride should have someone strong along to help the vet take the pup from that point while you turn your back to not see her leave. That's the one sight I wish I had not seen - the lifting out of the car etc.  Other than that it went as peacefully as could be.  On the way to the vet we stopped in a drive'thru and bought a hamburger and sausage patty for Oggie (who LOOOOOVED to eat) and were rewarded with tail wags and delighted sniffing of the food which made the trip much easier to bear. We realized the time was right -- she was too ill to be able to eat anymore, but not suffering so that she was too distressed to show any interest in food.You are too far away from needing this kind of advice so I hope I haven't upset you too much.  I will add just one thing that comforts me so much, and that is saving locks of my pets' hair along with their collars. I even  find stuffed toy animals that look like them and put their collars on them but that may be too wacky for you!  I've heard of some people who make paw prints to save with their mementos and I think that's a nice idea too.  Keeping piles of photos around to look at is incredibly helpful too. I sent a bereavement notice out and was very comforted by the cards and notes I received from Oggie's many fans.The one other thing I should impress upon you from my experience is that I decided to take Oggie to a naturopathic vet after the chemo didn't shrink the tumor.  He told me that there were things I could have done if I had not done the chemo, but that the chemo had made these natural remedies impossible.  It just depends on how each person and their dog feels about taking a lot of pills and potions with a restricted diet, as naturopathic regimes for cancer can be pretty extreme. So even though we did it the way we did, I don't regret the chemo. I think that way she had much less disruption to her life. Some dogs may not mind but Miss Oggie definitely hated to be pilled. We did do several homeopathic things through the naturopathic vet but I can't tell you whether or not they made any difference. The ones I did were non-invasive and tasteless kinds of nutritional and immune boosters. I won't look them up for you as it was 7 years ago and there are probably other and better treatments by now.I know a lot of people whose pets have cancer say acupuncture is great, but the one time I tried it it was a horrible fiasco, with Oggie crying out more than I've ever heard her. The guy was supposed to be very good, so I don't know what the story was there.  I'd say look into it though as I've heard so much good about it. We may have just had a bad day. Oggie did also cry during the ultrasound, so she may have been "complaining" rather than been in real pain, but she sounded like she was really hating it!!We have a new rescue pup now, also an Aussie mix, 7 mo old Luna. We are looking in her eyes and are just about ready to conclude that Oggie has come back to us in Aussie form.  Something about the way she eyes our food and actually "borrows" food off our plates...My very best to Boomie and to you. I hope you find the best vet around and that everything goes as smoothly as possible. Vivia Boe, Seattle  Roupii Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:00:00 GMT