Canine Bladder Cancer (tcc)

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RE: Just diagnosed

by brocaknows on Wed Sep 25, 2013 08:38 PM

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Cousteau pees in stream spurts.  He goes outside to pee and then doesn't go for a few hours.  

Yesterday we went to get a urethrogram and found out the prostatic urethra is nearly blocked.  The vet said there's basically a thread of room through that area.  That has freaked me out completely and I am figuring out how soon to go get the stent.  I was thinking late October but it's hard to know if that's too late.  The weird thing is he is peeing in streams.  His creatinine came out high too though, so that confirms my worries.  :(

RE: Just diagnosed

by ThelmasMom on Wed Sep 25, 2013 08:45 PM

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brocaknows, I'm so sorry to hear this! The worst thing is seeing your dog suffer.

Our dog Thelma Lou is really responding well to Piroxicam. No stomach issues and her 3 am potty breaks (and occasional accidents) have disappeared. She's generally less restless but has a little more energy and just seems to be in a better mood in general.

Sending you and Cousteau good thoughts...keep us posted.

RE: Side effects :(

by bigsky20 on Fri Sep 27, 2013 01:01 AM

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On Sep 07, 2013 3:06 PM LogansDad wrote:

Hello Laura

Really good to hear that Cousteau is feeling better.

I've heard good reports of Deramaxx, but have no direct experience of it.  It's not an NSAID that's available in the UK.   I am a member of another forum, many members of whom use Deramaxx and were very pleased with the results. It was hard to get hold of at one point. I hope you can get it into CR.  Previcox is another option (not sure if I've prev mentioned that) - it's another COX-2 specific inhibitor NSAID.  Some report that it has fewer side effects than Piroxicam, but Logan didn't tolerate even the former that well :-(.

Good that you've discussed the vinblastine dose with the Purdue vet.  Although Logan's not that small (just under 60lbs) he couldn't cope with even a 2.8mg dose and we went between 2.0 and 2.2 for him.

The new laser procedure sounds interesting, but I understand the concerns you have about the travelling, etc.  However, yes, another option to have.    Stenting has its pros and cons (forgive me if I've mentiuoned before - don't always have time to check what I've previously posted!).  It can  literally be a life saver for some dogs if carried out by a surgeon with enough experience of this procedure. Of course it requires a gen anaesthetic which can bring its own set of probs, especially if the dog is a senior.  Also, sometimes a stent has to replaced, if the tumour spreads. Infection is sometimes a concern, too, as is the likelihood of some incontinence.  Having said all of that.....it gives some dogs a new lease of life!

Diet sounds good!   We use goats' milk to help wash down some of Logan's supps given by mouth.  It is a lot easier on the tum than cows' milk (something to do with smaller molecules, I'm lead to believe).  Goat's milk yoghurt is also available.  Yes, a lot of stuff out there re curcumin. We did use the Thorne Research dog version for a short period of time, but it seemed to cause some GI probs with Logan (ironically, it can help protect the GI track, but at the same time it could cause probs in some individuals!!). I really wished it hadn't as (as you've said) it has a lot of benefits, not least, the apparent anti-cancer action. The key is to get a version that's bioavailable enough - not all products actually reach where they're supposed to!  I still have an almost full tub which you're more than welcome to have to try with Cousteau (no cost). It's sitting in the cupboard doing nothing! Just let me know - no prob either way.

Pity about the omegas, but you can only try these things.  We've tried so many supps/meds with Logan that might have been really good for him, but that he just couldn't cope with, bless him. BTW. did you add oil to Cousteau's food, or use capsules wrapped in a treat -the latter might be more successful?

Second year vet med!  that's great, Laura. Hope Monday went well.  I'm sure Cousteau is very proud that you're doing this :-)

All the best to you and Cousteau

Garry and Logan

Hi LogansDad, It took a while for me to find you, I'm glad that I did! How is Logan? I know of a woman who is interested in giving her dog Salvestrols and I'm hoping that you can help me advise her. Do you still believe in the product? Is there anything else that sounds positive. I told her about Artemisinin too. I really hope that Logan is doing wel! Love, BigSky

RE: Alternate to Piroxicam

by hpeetiep on Tue Oct 08, 2013 04:09 AM

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On Sep 18, 2013 2:18 PM hollysmum wrote:

Thank you Tillysmum it helps to know we're not alone in this! Holly's few occasions when she seemed uncomfortable peeing were due to cystitis caused by the bladder not emptying completely because of the obstruction, this could cause blood too. Antibiotics have got rid of the infection on both occasions so far. Now we make sure she has a good walk and off lead in the garden so she can have lots of wees then often take her out again and she'll have another. I know what this feels like as I've had cystitis! Apart from the stinging when you pee you feel you need to go a lot especially after you've started up again. I think the Urinary diet she's on is helping keep the cystitis at bay. The vet said it was important. But you may prefer a more natural approach. I guess eventually the bladder will get completely blocked but now she's doing so well we try not to think about it. She's very active and happy, hope Tilly is too. Woofs to her from Holly xx

I dont know how to post a post of my own so there is where I ended up.  I have sat here for hours reading these and have such a heavy heavy heart..  Let me commend all of you for your triumphs with this battle..  My dog Ava probably about 6 or 8 months ago had blood in her pee.  After a few days it resloved..  About 4wks ago it came back and came back with a vengence...  She would pee and walk a few steps squat to pee again but it was pure blood.  Take a few steps try again.  Took her to Vet said she had a bladder infection.  Gave her the Baytril with no results still blood and several attempts..  Back to the vet the urine sample that time was almost pure blood.  The Vet we saw that day said it probably was the wrong antibiotic looked at her urine and said there was barely any Bacteria but 8 cells to one of blood..  did a xray for stones but none were seen.  He gave me a different antibiotic all the while saying it probably wouldnt help but give it a few days and call him.  Well it didnt help and now the pee was bloodier.  Let me also mention that Ava my most loving friend had started to lay around more than normal also started to tremble at times.  Her interest in food had gone down and she no longer ran to the window when we pulled in running to the door with her doll baby.  Thought maybe it was from the meds.  I called the after 5 days on meds he said to bring her and he needed to do exploratory surgery.  He did the surgery came out and took us to a room and said it is very bad.  It is a large tumor and I do not even feel she will respond to the meds..  We should talk about not waking her up..  If we wake her she will spend time recovering from the surgery and you will probably be bringing her back in an emergent situation.  She now is peeing from a very little space.. After much discussion and him explaining what her quality would be decided to think of her and not us.  They brought her in gave her pain meds woke her a little so she would know we were there and while holding her and her kissing our face went left go..   Although the vet said she probably had the tumor from back the 6mos before I am crushed with guilt of maybe I should of done different.  To think that she may of even suffered at all was not an option for me.  The tremling I feel was from pain..  I wonder if I could of had her waggy butt and love fulled soul with me a little longer..  My heart is missing a piece and my life has an empty void..  I wish I had seen this before but hit with all of this in one day in an hours time.  I brought my Ava home home in a cedar box...

RE: Alternate to Piroxicam

by tillysmum on Tue Oct 08, 2013 06:54 AM

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On Oct 08, 2013 4:09 AM hpeetiep wrote:

On Sep 18, 2013 2:18 PM hollysmum wrote:

Thank you Tillysmum it helps to know we're not alone in this! Holly's few occasions when she seemed uncomfortable peeing were due to cystitis caused by the bladder not emptying completely because of the obstruction, this could cause blood too. Antibiotics have got rid of the infection on both occasions so far. Now we make sure she has a good walk and off lead in the garden so she can have lots of wees then often take her out again and she'll have another. I know what this feels like as I've had cystitis! Apart from the stinging when you pee you feel you need to go a lot especially after you've started up again. I think the Urinary diet she's on is helping keep the cystitis at bay. The vet said it was important. But you may prefer a more natural approach. I guess eventually the bladder will get completely blocked but now she's doing so well we try not to think about it. She's very active and happy, hope Tilly is too. Woofs to her from Holly xx

I dont know how to post a post of my own so there is where I ended up.  I have sat here for hours reading these and have such a heavy heavy heart..  Let me commend all of you for your triumphs with this battle..  My dog Ava probably about 6 or 8 months ago had blood in her pee.  After a few days it resloved..  About 4wks ago it came back and came back with a vengence...  She would pee and walk a few steps squat to pee again but it was pure blood.  Take a few steps try again.  Took her to Vet said she had a bladder infection.  Gave her the Baytril with no results still blood and several attempts..  Back to the vet the urine sample that time was almost pure blood.  The Vet we saw that day said it probably was the wrong antibiotic looked at her urine and said there was barely any Bacteria but 8 cells to one of blood..  did a xray for stones but none were seen.  He gave me a different antibiotic all the while saying it probably wouldnt help but give it a few days and call him.  Well it didnt help and now the pee was bloodier.  Let me also mention that Ava my most loving friend had started to lay around more than normal also started to tremble at times.  Her interest in food had gone down and she no longer ran to the window when we pulled in running to the door with her doll baby.  Thought maybe it was from the meds.  I called the after 5 days on meds he said to bring her and he needed to do exploratory surgery.  He did the surgery came out and took us to a room and said it is very bad.  It is a large tumor and I do not even feel she will respond to the meds..  We should talk about not waking her up..  If we wake her she will spend time recovering from the surgery and you will probably be bringing her back in an emergent situation.  She now is peeing from a very little space.. After much discussion and him explaining what her quality would be decided to think of her and not us.  They brought her in gave her pain meds woke her a little so she would know we were there and while holding her and her kissing our face went left go..   Although the vet said she probably had the tumor from back the 6mos before I am crushed with guilt of maybe I should of done different.  To think that she may of even suffered at all was not an option for me.  The tremling I feel was from pain..  I wonder if I could of had her waggy butt and love fulled soul with me a little longer..  My heart is missing a piece and my life has an empty void..  I wish I had seen this before but hit with all of this in one day in an hours time.  I brought my Ava home home in a cedar box...

hpeetiep

I'm so sorry for you losing Ava, but all we can do is take the advice from vets and know that we are doing what we believe to be the best for our dogs. I'm sure that you'll have many happy memories to help you through this.

Tilly was eventually dignosed with TCC at the end of May and we still have her, but we know that each day is a day nearer to losing her. The problem is that at 12years old she is slowing down so we are not sure how much is due to "old age".

Sending you lots of hugs and letting you know that we are "with" you at this time.

Tillysmum

RE: Alternate to Piroxicam

by hollysmum on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:43 AM

Quote | Reply

On Oct 08, 2013 4:09 AM hpeetiep wrote:

On Sep 18, 2013 2:18 PM hollysmum wrote:

Thank you Tillysmum it helps to know we're not alone in this! Holly's few occasions when she seemed uncomfortable peeing were due to cystitis caused by the bladder not emptying completely because of the obstruction, this could cause blood too. Antibiotics have got rid of the infection on both occasions so far. Now we make sure she has a good walk and off lead in the garden so she can have lots of wees then often take her out again and she'll have another. I know what this feels like as I've had cystitis! Apart from the stinging when you pee you feel you need to go a lot especially after you've started up again. I think the Urinary diet she's on is helping keep the cystitis at bay. The vet said it was important. But you may prefer a more natural approach. I guess eventually the bladder will get completely blocked but now she's doing so well we try not to think about it. She's very active and happy, hope Tilly is too. Woofs to her from Holly xx

I dont know how to post a post of my own so there is where I ended up.  I have sat here for hours reading these and have such a heavy heavy heart..  Let me commend all of you for your triumphs with this battle..  My dog Ava probably about 6 or 8 months ago had blood in her pee.  After a few days it resloved..  About 4wks ago it came back and came back with a vengence...  She would pee and walk a few steps squat to pee again but it was pure blood.  Take a few steps try again.  Took her to Vet said she had a bladder infection.  Gave her the Baytril with no results still blood and several attempts..  Back to the vet the urine sample that time was almost pure blood.  The Vet we saw that day said it probably was the wrong antibiotic looked at her urine and said there was barely any Bacteria but 8 cells to one of blood..  did a xray for stones but none were seen.  He gave me a different antibiotic all the while saying it probably wouldnt help but give it a few days and call him.  Well it didnt help and now the pee was bloodier.  Let me also mention that Ava my most loving friend had started to lay around more than normal also started to tremble at times.  Her interest in food had gone down and she no longer ran to the window when we pulled in running to the door with her doll baby.  Thought maybe it was from the meds.  I called the after 5 days on meds he said to bring her and he needed to do exploratory surgery.  He did the surgery came out and took us to a room and said it is very bad.  It is a large tumor and I do not even feel she will respond to the meds..  We should talk about not waking her up..  If we wake her she will spend time recovering from the surgery and you will probably be bringing her back in an emergent situation.  She now is peeing from a very little space.. After much discussion and him explaining what her quality would be decided to think of her and not us.  They brought her in gave her pain meds woke her a little so she would know we were there and while holding her and her kissing our face went left go..   Although the vet said she probably had the tumor from back the 6mos before I am crushed with guilt of maybe I should of done different.  To think that she may of even suffered at all was not an option for me.  The tremling I feel was from pain..  I wonder if I could of had her waggy butt and love fulled soul with me a little longer..  My heart is missing a piece and my life has an empty void..  I wish I had seen this before but hit with all of this in one day in an hours time.  I brought my Ava home home in a cedar box...

I am so sorry to read about your dear Ava. So often vets can miss a diagnosis and without invasive tests its often not possible to see what's happening. You certainly did all you could for Ava and most of all you obviously loved her to bits which she will have always know. It will have meant far more to her than all the medical intervention possible, none of which she would understand. I know how you feel now, bereft and empty. I went into total shock two days ago when Holly, who has TCC, seemed to take a turn for the worse and was very uncoordinated for a while after her supper. I wondered if she'd had a stroke. She slept a lot and had some pee accidents in the house though they've been more frequent lately. My husband slept downstairs with her so he could let her out easily as she wees little and often now. I am diabetic and sometimes unable to function well during the night. I slept upstairs with her loving companion Scottie Hamish and at one point I was aware that she'd crept up and back into her bed. Yesterday and today Oh joy, she's been quite normal and wagging her tail and playing again. But we know its only a matter of time and we'll be joining you in your sorrow. She only wees little dribbles which means the tumour is nearly blocking the bladder exit. Metacam has been our only hope. Hamish has survived on only Metacam, lots of love and reliable routine (no holidays for us!) for over three years with incurable liver cancer. We've decided not to use stents or anything which will upset Holly and when the time comes she will join our other Scotties in Elysian Fields. But we dread it. And we sympathise with you. Just believe Ava is in a happy place and hopefully you will meet again. X

Ava

by Ilovelucy on Tue Oct 08, 2013 02:30 PM

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Dear Ava's Mom, I'm so sorry about Ava. Your post made me cry. I just wanted to say that I hope you won't blame yourself for not catching the tumor earlier. If you had taken Ava to the vet the first time you saw blood in her urine, she would have been prescribed an antibiotic, and the bleeding would have stopped just as it did with no treatment. No one would have even suspected cancer at that time, much less started treatment for it. I think you did the right thing in not bringing her back out of the surgery. Her suffering is over now, and you can take comfort in that, even though you miss her terribly. I write this as we enter our third month of treatments for our dog Lucy, who has probably had the cancer since March. We grieve every day as we watch her decline. Again, I'm so sorry about Ava. I know you miss her. Becky

RE: Alternate to Piroxicam

by Chloebeaglemom on Tue Oct 08, 2013 02:46 PM

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So sorry about Ava . I lost my Chloe a year ago in Sept. We all have different stories but same outcome. Will be thinking of you.

RE: Piroxicam

by ThelmasMom on Tue Oct 08, 2013 02:47 PM

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First off, to Ava's Mom, I am so sorry for you losing your baby that way. As others have already said, you listened to your vet, which is what any of us would have done. Please don't blame yourself.

ilovelucy, I know what you mean by how painful it is to watch the decline. Cancer just sucks.

I wanted to post a question about Piroxicam to those of you who are using it. Our 15 year old lab mix was diagnosed 4 weeks ago and has been on Piroxicam for 3 weeks. The first 2 weeks were great, after which she started having tummy problems...couldn't hold down her food, especially the morning meal (which is also the meal with which we give the Piroxicam). The vet started her on Cytotec, and we were starting to have some success after figuring out that she needs it 3x a day. But we are still having issues. She still doesn't seem interested in food in the mornings. And this morning, she was incredibly thirsty and drank so much water that she threw it up. Has anyone else seen these morning issues or excessive thirst?

RE: Piroxicam

by Ilovelucy on Tue Oct 08, 2013 03:16 PM

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Hi, Thelma's Mom, I don't want to alarm you, but excessive thirst is something we're watching for in Lucy. Is Thelma Lou still urinating? If a dog can no longer urinate, toxins build up in the body, and the dog keeps drinking to try to get rid of them. I hope this isn't the case for Thelma Lou, as it's a very bad sign. Maybe she's just having a reaction to the new medicine? I'm sorry about the Piroxicam, since Thelma Lou seemed to be handling it so well at first. We're on a new regime with Lucy--Piroxicam for three days, followed by one day off, and no Pepcid at all. We came up with this plan after a bad bout of stomach trouble that lasted six days, during which time she had no Piroxicam. Lucy seems to be managing fairly well with this schedule. We do have to coax her to eat, and we've started giving her Tramadol for pain on days when she limps--another new, unpleasant development. I'm think the cancer has spread to her bones. We were sure last Monday was the end, but it's almost as though she hears us talking and then decides to rally one more time. I'm so sad for all of us and our dogs. Let me know about Thelma Lou. Becky
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