Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:54 AM

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I am not so sure. Never underestimate a Neanderthal!

I have begun to wonder how long some of the folk type cancer treatments might have existed. There were reports from the 1860s of using various acids as cancer treatments. Acid chemistry has been known for several centuries. How long might this have been applied as a medicine? Famine was a recurring feature of early humans. It would seem reasonable to expect that the effect of glucose lowering on malignancy would have been noticed. 

It is quite impressive that the traditional medicial plant that inspired Syrosingopine has been used for over 2,000 years! 

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Jan 25, 2019 01:44 AM

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Yes, typically after the initial glow of optimism that emanates from these finds there is then a wave of confusion when trying to sludge through the details. In the article below they talk of how syrosingopine reduced the required therapeutic dose of metformin from 30 to 2 mM. Yet, the dosages  used in humans only generate 5-25 microM. An article then went on to explain that even these dosages can for some unknown reason be therapeutic in cancer.

The syrosingopine dosage used in the below article would when converted to human dosage still be quite a bit higher than the dosages that I saw quoted in human clinical research. 

This round of verificiation does often become quite murky.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28028542

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by JohnnyP on Fri Jan 25, 2019 03:04 AM

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I bought nano curcummin for Shirley a few weeks ago, but she wanted to run it by the oncologist before taking it.  We asked about it today when we had our monthly consultation.  Today it was with a P.A. (physician assistant).

I gave her the bottle and she went away to ask her boss.  She returned to say "it's an anti-oxidant that might be ok for you and me, but we don't know how it will interact with her cancer medication, so no, don't take it.  It has to be proven with clinical trials."

ARRRRGGGG!!!!!!

They spend very little time with us.  I wanted to discuss the rising CA15-3 marker but no time.  I pulled out my phone and showed her the survival curve and asked where are we on this, we need to know.  She didn't answer and said she had to see other patients.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5289136/

Scroll down to fig.1 or click here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5289136/ bin/jocmr-09-183-g001.jpg

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by JohnnyP on Fri Jan 25, 2019 04:14 AM

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Fig. 1:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5289136/figure/

Very grim looking.

Two months ago I asked the oncologist about cases like this.  She said 18-24 months, but she has some still going after ten years.

And she doesn't want us to take curcumin???  I'm wasting my time doing all this research and sending it to them.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sat Jan 26, 2019 03:54 AM

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JohnnyP, there is so much happening in clinical trials: You should keep an eye out for developments. There is a fair amount of bed time reading below; nearly 8,800 clinical trials in breast cancer, over 65,000 for cancer.  

Every once in a while critic fires one across the bow and usually catches the thread by surprise. There is so much in motion and it is impossible to keep pace. We can only do our best.

It is a disappointment that phase 1 trials have melted towards a nearly perpetual finish line just on an ever receding time horizon. These trials used to take months, now they are pushing towards a decade. Right to Try should have considered this aspect of the clinical trial process.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=breast+cancer&flds=aby&age_v=&gndr=&type=&rslt=&Search=Apply

http://phrma-docs.phrma.org/files/dmfile/2018-Cancer-Drug-Li

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=cancer&term=

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by JohnnyP on Sat Feb 02, 2019 02:15 PM

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Shirley is doing great.  We just saw her radiation oncologist for a followup, scheduled four months ago.  The doctor and staff were very surprised at her progress.  When I asked, he said from her initial visit last May, her spine was so damaged they really didn't think she would make it to Christmas.

At one point, Shirley stood up out of her wheelchair and bent over to pull down her pants legs.  You should have seen the shocked face of the doctor's assistant.  She couldn't believe Shirley was able do that.

The doctor asked a lot of questions about how she is feeling, etc.  I told him I  was worried about the rising CA15-3 marker, but he said "I don't go by that.  I go by the clinical evidence and she is doing great.  The marker is just a blood number that rises and falls."

I asked how many MRI's and PET scans does our insurance allow per year?  He said he didn't know, but he would be glad to schedule a PET scan for her.  I think he said it would be a couple months.  Shirley later told me if he was really worried, he would have scheduled it right away.  I know, it's not really evidence. but it's something.

I asked if he had seen the materials I have been emailing, he threw up his hands and said he has no time to look at it.

We have both lost considerable weight since they last saw us, but it was needed and they sat we look great.  I reminded him we have been eating a low carb calorie restricted ketogenic diet.  My wife doesn't think they would mention it to their patients, but based on their reactions, she thinks they would try it themselves if they had cancer.

I'm still watching youtubes and reading papers.  I found a video from 2013 by Dr. George Yu, a colleage of Dr. Ko's.  He does mention 3BP at one point, and shows a photo of himself with Dr. Ko:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om2Uj07ypec

I googled and see he has a foundation.  3BP is mentioned at the bottom of this page:

https://yufoundation.org/about-us

There are some links I need to follow at the very bottom.

Meanwhile, the Metabolic Conference is ongoing in Long Beach this week.  Dr. Seyfreid and Dr. D'Agastino will be there.  I can't wait to hear the latest news.

Oh, after the doctor's visit, Shirley wanted to have a look in the Goodwill store.  I wheeled her around and we both found a few things to take home.  In the book section, I scored a copy of "Molecular Biology of The Cell" third edition, 1991.  1294 pages plus glossary and index.  $1.95.  :)

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Sun Feb 03, 2019 04:38 AM

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JohnnyP, this is very encouraging news!

After all of these years we are now starting to see a number of successes emerging. My perception is that we have managed to unlock a part of the cancer puzzle: i.e., related to amplifying response to chemotherapy through metabolic stressing. However, it is still unclear to us how to go about achieving this magnification without chemo.

Apparently Dayspring considers 3-BP to be its leading edge treatment that is then supported by a range of other metabolics. Yet, it is not obvious how they have made 3-BP  so effective. What formulation are they using? What combinations?

I am glad that you took note of the clinical situation and made appropriate adjustments. Oftentimes people seem to go full steam ahead with the same game plan even when the situation is heading south. If getting out of a wheelchair has become the measure of success, it is urgently important to think what alternatives might be attempted to move the goal posts upfield.

I simply do not understand the mentality that you  mentioned of doctors who appear to have no interest in interacting with the research literature. I appreciate that there is something called reality where people go to work at 9 am, clock out at 5 PM, pick up their paycheck, have a nice family dinner and then catch up on their social media, though some level of engagement in the enormous cancer literature does not seem an unreasonable request of modern medicine. Life based 100% on attendance no longer rings true. I realize that this allows for maximal billable minutes, though all that you have then is hollow presentism.

I am at a loss as to why the metabolic strategies that you have mentioned have not been incorporated into current standard of care. It is quite jarring when you go to the pancreatic cancer threads on Compass and read people who feel that there situation is completely hopeless, while the Turkish clinic published reasonably favorable results in pancreatic cancer patients over a year ago (as you linked).

JohnnyP, I am so glad that you continue to be mentally engaged in trying to unravel the enigma of cancer. If I had to distill the thread into one thought that would help improve the outcome of cancer treatment that would be at the top of the list or very close to it. 

Going to the metabolic conference was a very good idea! The website gives me the impression that it would be great fun and an enormous learning opportunity! I am sure that I would be doing an all night cram session for the final day final exam! What a great way to learn and live! Educate yourself about something that you are passionate about, meet up with a bunch of people who are also stoked, Jump on a plane, Are they fundamentally opposed to accepting US dollars? No?, great let the learning begin! (Yes? Get back on the plane).

Metabolic Dysregulation is the central force creating a massive medical catastrophe in the modern world. Cancer, Alzheimer's, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, seizure disorder, stroke; it's all largely metabolic. Modern living is even making our pets sick! We clearly need to energize a grassroots consciousness raising movement that embraces metabolic medicine.

The line up for the Conference looks solid. Diversity of background truly is a strength here as the clues related to our modern metabolic crisis are increasingly becoming obscured. Possibly including a historical perspective would  be insightful.  There is no precedent for the per captia level of caloric intake now being consumed in the Modern World.

From the conference speakers, I would be espeically attentive to the exercise physiologists. I am very interested in how ketogenic diet/ glucose lowering through aerobic/anerobic exercise and lactate increase through anerobic exercise might combine into a cancer treatment. Report to the thread your impressions ... Please!

Of late I have been reconsidering my general orientation to cancer treatment. Until very recently I thought that the best cancer strategy would be to go with a super duper overwhelmingly powerful high tech treatment: minicells, X-Ray PDT, oncolytic virus, metabolic blocker (e.g. E260) etc. I am no longer as sure that this would represent a long-term strategy.

Once cancer has went metastatic, cure in the strictest sense might no longer be possible. In dogs they found that a metabolic approach was often effective as a treatment, though dogs who then went back to typical Western canine lifestyles (obesity, high carbs, low activity {basically the lifestyle of Western people}) would have recurrences.

My position is now shifting toward the idea that a cancer diagnosis should initiate a life long orthogonal lifestyle transformation. At its most basic this is a highly simple strategy: The lifestyle that gets people into an unhealthy state needs to be changed. Do the opposite to move back towards health. Many of the well known cancer treament plans embrace this exact philosophy. Eat right, exercise, early to bed etc. . Healthy living is more powerful medicine than is generally understood. 

It is so great to hear that you have some bed time reading. Perhaps you could bring it to the beach with you while you catch a few waves! This is a revolutionary time of mass learning! It is so exciting!

The time of joyful high school students throwing away their caps with the expectation that their days of learning are over is over. We are witnessing a profound transformation towards life-long learning. Increasingly the very intellectal legitimacy of our most respected professions is being called into question. How much longer will questions asked about metabolic cancer treatments be allowed to be answered with "I don't have time", instead of this being interpreted as meaning I don't know? 

Some more bedtime reading. The Warburg Trap looks especially interesting. It is quite exasperating reading many of these articles because often they will slightly tweak drug combinations that we are very familiar with and reveal a new and possibly more powerful treatment.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-018-0033-2

http://www.oncotarget.com/index.php?journal=oncotarget&page=article&op=view&path[]=25839&path[]=80775

Best Wishes and Keep on Learning! Jcancom

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Fri Feb 08, 2019 02:33 AM

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The metabolic perspective would predict that fasting should be a helpful intervention in cancer.  Indeed the article below mentions that over a thousand documented instances of cancer regressions have been linked to glucose lowering through fasting.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=25579853

Surprisingly even very modest fasting regimens also apparently have to some extent anti-cancer effects. For example, even the minimal intervention of 13 hour overnight fasting appeared to help in breast cancer with longer fasts having greater benefit. Given this moving to 18 hour intermittent fasting would not be unreasonable. 

I have also included a link to a cancer patient who went on a 21 day water fast with long term benefit. There might be issues worth discussing related to this specific instance, though the basic idea of water only fasting as a cancer therapy does have potential. The last two links are large studies that have recently been published that look at the safety of water only/low cal diets. I think that our thread has neglected this approach and should give it more attention in the future.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27032109

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30093470

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26655228

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5819235/pdf/129

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314618/pdf/pon

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by JohnnyP on Mon Feb 11, 2019 05:39 AM

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J:

I watched this video several months ago.  It's part of a series of six videos from a 2017 conference in Paris.  Most of them were pretty good, from people I've seen before.

This one by Ernest G. Hope is on immunotherapy that targets the blood vessels that feed the tumor:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkuwW7Bqho&t=445s

Very exciting stuff, so I did a search on where to go get it, and found nothing.

The Holy Grail and no one is using it?

One of the slides in his presentation he says it's patented, so I did an advanced patent search under his name and found one patent, EP1231840B1.  The patent was granted in 2009, but is no longer in force. Status is "Ceased":

https://www.ipo.gov.uk/p-ipsum/Case/ApplicationNumber/EP0098


I posted a comment to that effect below the video, but all comments are now gone.

To me, it looks like a "vaporware" presentation about a lot of work he did that didn't pan out.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 AM

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JohnnyP, here's the connections that occurred to me after reading your comment:

The 3-BP article that attacked the fibrin component of tumors through CREKA:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29286239

A figure in the article did show that the 3-BP was widely distributed beyond the tumor after 2 hours. It is true that this exposure might not have caused any significant damage to the rest of the body, though an even more focused treatment to the tumor would be welcome.   

This then lead me to recall the article that also used CREKA along with an FDA approved platelet inhibitor (ticagrelor):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=28435448

This helped reduce metastasis.

It is so extremely frustrating that there are so many of these fantastic ideas that stay on the shelf and likely will remain on the shelf forever. I would guess that for every million of these basic science type reports only 1 ever makes it to a patient.

This is surprising as the report for the second article appears reasonably targeted to tumor cells. While it is true that some level of uncertainty would exist before dosing with humans, some treatments such as these would seem safe enough for those patients without other lines of treatment available to explore. 

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