Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Jcancom on Tue Nov 26, 2019 02:24 AM

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This thread has become completely unmanageable! Over 5000 posts! It is not possible to find anything. What can we do to make this better able to communicate the ideas that we have developed over the last number of years? We have learned about cancer and developed important insights that could be of help to others, though the sheer bulk of the posts obscures these insights. This thread is buckling under the stress caused from its success.

One idea that we are currently working on is using the RSS feed as a mechanism of retrieving the posts, processing them, uploading them to a dormant RSS drop box and then posting the url to this thread. If the technique were simple enough anyone could help us to make this thread more manageable.

Fortunately, the settings on Cancer Compass allow for the entire RSS field to be downloaded in an XML file format text file. You can make this download by clicking on the RSS symbol above (the orange box with the radio waves drifting outward (top of the page on the right)) and then clicking file (top left in Firefox) and save. This text file could be edited and then possibly submitted to a website.

This is an exciting development as it would allow us to be more effective in communicating the ideas that have accumulated over the years in a more concise manner.
Those coping with difficult illnesses such as cancer need easily appliable knowledge. The idea with RSS could help.  

Any technical suggetions on how we might achieve this desired result would be greatly appreciated.

          

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by RagnarLodbrok on Sun May 03, 2020 03:30 PM

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Do we have any other cases of successful 3BP treatment other than the boy with HCC and the melanoma patient?

IMO both cases aren't as straightforward as they seem to be. The boy with HCC received TACE before recriving treatment with 3BP and having a complete response to TACE is not unheard of even if rare. 

The melanoma patient did not have scans to confirm that his tumors actually died. Tumor markers are good predictors of response but they should be used together with scans. Lots of substances simply reduce levels of biomarker but don't kill cancer actually.

Even both cases were actual cures, it's still hard to extrapolate from n=2. Tha's why phase III trials always involve 100+ patients. 

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sun May 03, 2020 03:47 PM

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Hi Ragnar,

The case related to the boy is clear and the results were due to 3BP. This is a peer review paper written by scientists and clinicians that have a good name in their field of expertise. Next to the relevant authors I also discussed the details with the parents – the father is a scientist who has all the supportive details for the conclusion related to 3BP action.

The other case from Egypt is indeed a more debatable one in terms of outcome.

After all these years, I still think 3BP is one of the most relevant metabolic tools we have. However, I think TACE is dangerous (to strong – inducing necrosis – inflammation – fast tumor regrowth if not managed well), while giving it intravenously could help.

We used 3Bp intravenously during about 1.5 to 2 years and I am positive. It’s not the silver bullet, at least not yet based on the current knowledge on how to use it, but can be an important part of a more comprehensive metabolic strategy.

Kind regards,
Daniel

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by RagnarLodbrok on Sun May 03, 2020 06:32 PM

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I find it odd that a compound with solid promise hasn't even entered phase I trials yet. What exactly stands in the way? Is it lack of money? Some form of bureaucratic difficulties? 

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by peggyznd on Sun May 03, 2020 07:06 PM

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I am of the opinion that the reason nothing has come to trial is that 3-BP is not 'a compound with solid promise."  If it were, after all this time, those companies who use this kind of research to refine such compounds would likely have started such trials.

There are MANY compounds that never get into even a Phase I trial, and the great majority of Phase I trials never get past that phase.  Certainly the companies who do this kind of investment support also do their homework, and do not see the value in this compound.

 

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by RagnarLodbrok on Wed May 06, 2020 02:27 PM

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Do you know how expensive clinical trials are? On average it costs over $1bln to bring a drug from pre-clinical stage to the market. Even if they manage to patent a formulation, they would need to charge at least several thousand $ per dose of a drug that costs almost nothing to cover the costs. 

I see no reason why at least phase I trial shouldn't be conducted.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by peggyznd on Wed May 06, 2020 02:33 PM

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The cost of even a Phase I trial is likely to be costly, and if there is little confidence of a benefit from any med or compound, few companies would be willing to support that.  If they and potential investors had thought by now that there was likely to be value, and that there was a plan to move forward into Phases II and III, then there would be a likelihood of such an investment.

As it stands, that sense of value of the compound and likelihood of return simply are not there, with time and effort and money going into other trial development.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Wed May 06, 2020 07:28 PM

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Dera Ragnar,

My opinion base on personal experience with 3BP: this substance had good potential against cancer.

My opinion base on the science related to 3BP: this substance had good potential against cancer.

My opinion on the general story around 3BP: a drama.

Of course 3BP is not the only one here with good potential. There are many more like 3BP that will probably never take off. Probably 99% of the academic discoveries that may add important value to patients remain confined in academic space.

In general, this value does not get to the people (as a drug) not because of bad intentions. Nearly every person involved wants to cure cancer. But the framework of this world is not the one suitable to enable this flow of value to the people. The main reason for that is exactly what you said: ~$1bn required to reach the market for each drug (and >95% failure rate). That means that as a company, you will need to take very good care so that there is a ROI, and a good one (due to risks) in case you succeed. So finally, the decision is not taken on the basis of anti-cancer potential but more importantly business potential.

Many people do not agree with this system but indirectly, most of the society supports this system (e.g. pension funds invest in these companies and if they are not profitable (even if the company cures cancer) the funds will be redirected to profitable and growing companies).

The question for us now is: can we imagine better frameworks that could be implemented in this world that will be both more effective and efficient and lead to more drugs investigated and channeled towards the clinical space in a faster and cheaper manner? At the same time, the regulatory framework would have to change and become more flexible when it comes to stage 4 patients.

Coming back to 3BP, in my view the main challenge was and it is related to the intellectual property. There was a long fight on that for many year and I am not sure what is the status of that even now, almost 20 years later. This also answers to your question, i.e. why not even a phase one (which is cheap enough to perform). There are so many drugs with less potential that at least go through phase one. But the question “who is the owner” of 3BP rights and the legal battle around that brought us here, so that 20 years after its discovery we are still wondering what happened with 3BP. In addition, every good idea, needs a believer and a good communicator to convert it into a success. It’s clear 3BP was not lucky enough with that. At least not yet. Recently there was an anouncment indicating some phase 1 trial going on in Korea - somebody posted that in the Forum sectio of my Blog.

Maybe one day I will be able to support dr. Ko with this project.

Kind regards,
Daniel

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by ToddlerFather on Thu May 07, 2020 11:06 PM

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One possible alternative is crowdfunding. This was done with at least one LDN trial, and is a possible path forward for drugs with no possible IP. Note that since you mentioned 20+ years for 3BP, it's quite likely that every IP right that existed is no more. 

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