Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Apr 17, 2015 08:17 PM

Quote | Reply

On Apr 17, 2015 6:50 PM adickens7 wrote:

On Apr 16, 2015 9:46 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Apr 16, 2015 8:46 PM adickens7 wrote:

On Apr 16, 2015 8:10 PM jetsparkle wrote:

I have absolutely no idea why a quote from the Bible pertains to Dayspring Clinic--totally out of context as far as I am concerned.  Gives one pause for thought when equating a doctor/clinic to Jesus and His teachings.

I checked out  "We Have A Cure" on Facebook and its website. The doctor authoring these is an advocate of 3-BP and is trying to get accurate clinical trials going.  More can be read by going to her site.  

She stresses that appropriate protocol should be addressed.  Also questioned such protocol, doses, results, side effects, and openly sharing such--and so forth  so that the usage of 3-BP can be made available to any interested in the future.

I do not think Mr. Chiu wants this to stop--he just wants to know why such an inexpensive substance is now going to be out of range for those in need--and that could pass away because the costs are so high. Valid questions...

"Using a Ferrari?"  Only the very wealthy can afford to purchase this type of car--and the costs of these programs, knowing that a month alone at a clinic is not sufficient to address cancer--may well indeed equate to purchasing this extravagantly priced car.

Technically your clinic is making this program only available to those  with very sufficient funds.  I will never believe that no profit is being made--and one should be able to profit--but not at the probable expense of lives of others.

Physician Heal Thyself--First Do No Harm.

Well I think the good book pertains to life and living and not something that sits on a shelf or when someone goes to church two times a year.  If you are offended by someone actually trying to apply scriptures in daily living then that is your prerogative.  It is my prerogative to try to live it daily.

I took from the earlier post that Mr. Chiu was disrespectful of Dayspring and myself and our attempts to make 3bp available.  If someone does not like our cost then why don’t they open a clinic and charge what they want?  Or is it just easier to complain and throw rocks? Why do people complain about Dayspring? The answer is found in Teddy Roosevelt’s “The Man in the Arena”.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

So I trust and pray you get in the arena and know firsthand what we are doing so that you are more than a cold and timid soul. I would hope and pray that people would support Dayspring in trying to make 3bp available but I suppose it is easier to complain.

I definitely am not offended by anyone attempting to apply scriptures in daily living--I wish more would do so, in fact--the world would be a much better place.  Just as I wish more would express compasssion when someone's loved one passes away--i.e. zhao's wife.  I did not notice any type of caring/condolence on your part when this happened--somehow I do not view this as "daily Christian living" on your part. However, I do  have difficulty identifying the nexus between the scriptures and your apparent thoughts that your clinic is being attacked by those who merely desire to question about its costs and practices. 

And so now I am being identified as a "cold and timid soul"--along with my being accused of being only a complainer.  Such heartless, cold, unkind words from a "healer".  Unbelievable.  What an encouraging thing to say to a person who has Stage !V cancer with mets.  You, sir,  need to examine your own heart and motivations.

Well, enough of sparring with you--I do not want to spend any more time discussing available treatments with or from you.  Egotism and arrogance have no place in a healing, spiritual environment--and you seem to have an abundance of both of these characteristics.

All on this board know that various treatments are necessary and are synergistic.   Cancer must be targeted from all different directions.  That is why, perhaps, it may be a good idea to target the cancer --and not the patients who are attempting to sift through the morass of available treatments and protocol--attempting to find a viable solution.

I have been involved with holistic therapies for decades now--and highly approve of them.  I do know that charging almost $10,000.00 per week for 5 days of treatment is excessive.  To state that a seriously ill patient is merely "complaining" about your clinic costs is unconscionable--no, one is just stating that perhaps these costs are out of reach for the average person who is trying to save his/her life.  

Your sarcastic remarks and insinuations are unmerited and unwanted by those earnestly seeking help.

Hi jetsparkle,

I was saddened by zhoa's wife's passing.  But when his first comments to me were to blatantly lie in saying "Dayspring doesn't have a MD" and to follow up with "well he is not a board certified oncologist" put me in a place where it did not seem appropriate to say anything to him.

The cold and timid soul comment is directed to those who want 3bp available clinically but when it is complain about the cost.  But wisdom is justified of her children. There is a pancreatic researcher here who makes a salary of 1.25 million a year and has gotten nowhere (why not try 3bp??? hmmmm).  The average oncologist makes 290k a year and in a recent poll 60% were unhappy with their salary.  I did not break 60k in my salary for 2014 so it is discouraging when I am accused of overcharging or being too high in our price.

When people make up facts about Dayspring like "charging almost $10,000. a week" is upsetting to me and I try to get the facts right. So people willing to tell a lie about Dayspring makes me want to respond and if an accurate rebuttal causes difficulties to people then perhaps I should bow out of this discussion.  I originally got into this forum because of Danelius and trying to get information out and information in but that period seems to have passed.

God's Best to All!

Wow, a pancreatic researcher makes a salary of 1.25 million a year??? Andrew, are you considering Salinomycin treatment as well as an addition to Dayspring?

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Apr 17, 2015 08:59 PM

Quote | Reply

An interesting subject relevant for cancer treatment is telomerase. In cancer, this is known to be upregulated and protect the cancer cells by inhibiting the naturall erosion of telomers which would otherwise lead to natural death of fast replicating cells. Therfore telomerase inhibitors are interesting anti-cancer elements. Berberine seems to have a telomerase inhibitor role as well. Here you can read a bit more about the theory behind: http://www.pg.gda.pl/chem/konkurs_jc/project_description_jc.

Yet, the most interesting and accessible telomerase inhibitor seems to be procaine: http://www.newswire.com/procaine-turns-off-telomerase-and/12

But othes say it is a telomerase activator instead (i.e. an anti-aging element): http://www.newswire.com/the-procaine-pump-and-the-cells/7191

What do you think? Is an inhibitor or an activator?

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Fri Apr 17, 2015 09:00 PM

Quote | Reply

An interesting subject relevant for cancer treatment is telomerase. In cancer, this is known to be upregulated and protect the cancer cells by inhibiting the naturall erosion of telomers which would otherwise lead to natural death of fast replicating cells. Therfore telomerase inhibitors are interesting anti-cancer elements. Berberine seems to have a telomerase inhibitor role as well. 

Yet, the most interesting and accessible telomerase inhibitor seems to be procaine: http://www.newswire.com/procaine-turns-off-telomerase-and/12

But othes say it is a telomerase activator instead (i.e. an anti-aging element): http://www.newswire.com/the-procaine-pump-and-the-cells/7191

What do you think? Is an inhibitor or an activator?

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by jetsparkle on Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:38 PM

Quote | Reply

On Apr 17, 2015 6:50 PM adickens7 wrote:

On Apr 16, 2015 9:46 PM jetsparkle wrote:

On Apr 16, 2015 8:46 PM adickens7 wrote:

On Apr 16, 2015 8:10 PM jetsparkle wrote:

I have absolutely no idea why a quote from the Bible pertains to Dayspring Clinic--totally out of context as far as I am concerned.  Gives one pause for thought when equating a doctor/clinic to Jesus and His teachings.

I checked out  "We Have A Cure" on Facebook and its website. The doctor authoring these is an advocate of 3-BP and is trying to get accurate clinical trials going.  More can be read by going to her site.  

She stresses that appropriate protocol should be addressed.  Also questioned such protocol, doses, results, side effects, and openly sharing such--and so forth  so that the usage of 3-BP can be made available to any interested in the future.

I do not think Mr. Chiu wants this to stop--he just wants to know why such an inexpensive substance is now going to be out of range for those in need--and that could pass away because the costs are so high. Valid questions...

"Using a Ferrari?"  Only the very wealthy can afford to purchase this type of car--and the costs of these programs, knowing that a month alone at a clinic is not sufficient to address cancer--may well indeed equate to purchasing this extravagantly priced car.

Technically your clinic is making this program only available to those  with very sufficient funds.  I will never believe that no profit is being made--and one should be able to profit--but not at the probable expense of lives of others.

Physician Heal Thyself--First Do No Harm.

Well I think the good book pertains to life and living and not something that sits on a shelf or when someone goes to church two times a year.  If you are offended by someone actually trying to apply scriptures in daily living then that is your prerogative.  It is my prerogative to try to live it daily.

I took from the earlier post that Mr. Chiu was disrespectful of Dayspring and myself and our attempts to make 3bp available.  If someone does not like our cost then why don’t they open a clinic and charge what they want?  Or is it just easier to complain and throw rocks? Why do people complain about Dayspring? The answer is found in Teddy Roosevelt’s “The Man in the Arena”.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

So I trust and pray you get in the arena and know firsthand what we are doing so that you are more than a cold and timid soul. I would hope and pray that people would support Dayspring in trying to make 3bp available but I suppose it is easier to complain.

I definitely am not offended by anyone attempting to apply scriptures in daily living--I wish more would do so, in fact--the world would be a much better place.  Just as I wish more would express compasssion when someone's loved one passes away--i.e. zhao's wife.  I did not notice any type of caring/condolence on your part when this happened--somehow I do not view this as "daily Christian living" on your part. However, I do  have difficulty identifying the nexus between the scriptures and your apparent thoughts that your clinic is being attacked by those who merely desire to question about its costs and practices. 

And so now I am being identified as a "cold and timid soul"--along with my being accused of being only a complainer.  Such heartless, cold, unkind words from a "healer".  Unbelievable.  What an encouraging thing to say to a person who has Stage !V cancer with mets.  You, sir,  need to examine your own heart and motivations.

Well, enough of sparring with you--I do not want to spend any more time discussing available treatments with or from you.  Egotism and arrogance have no place in a healing, spiritual environment--and you seem to have an abundance of both of these characteristics.

All on this board know that various treatments are necessary and are synergistic.   Cancer must be targeted from all different directions.  That is why, perhaps, it may be a good idea to target the cancer --and not the patients who are attempting to sift through the morass of available treatments and protocol--attempting to find a viable solution.

I have been involved with holistic therapies for decades now--and highly approve of them.  I do know that charging almost $10,000.00 per week for 5 days of treatment is excessive.  To state that a seriously ill patient is merely "complaining" about your clinic costs is unconscionable--no, one is just stating that perhaps these costs are out of reach for the average person who is trying to save his/her life.  

Your sarcastic remarks and insinuations are unmerited and unwanted by those earnestly seeking help.

Hi jetsparkle,

I was saddened by zhoa's wife's passing.  But when his first comments to me were to blatantly lie in saying "Dayspring doesn't have a MD" and to follow up with "well he is not a board certified oncologist" put me in a place where it did not seem appropriate to say anything to him.

The cold and timid soul comment is directed to those who want 3bp available clinically but when it is complain about the cost.  But wisdom is justified of her children. There is a pancreatic researcher here who makes a salary of 1.25 million a year and has gotten nowhere (why not try 3bp??? hmmmm).  The average oncologist makes 290k a year and in a recent poll 60% were unhappy with their salary.  I did not break 60k in my salary for 2014 so it is discouraging when I am accused of overcharging or being too high in our price.

When people make up facts about Dayspring like "charging almost $10,000. a week" is upsetting to me and I try to get the facts right. So people willing to tell a lie about Dayspring makes me want to respond and if an accurate rebuttal causes difficulties to people then perhaps I should bow out of this discussion.  I originally got into this forum because of Danelius and trying to get information out and information in but that period seems to have passed.

God's Best to All!

And it saddens me that you seem to be missing the point in this discussion--hopefully you will take the time over the weekend or so to re-think your availability on this thread.

Zhao should be allowed to express his thoughts and ideas--as should we all.  He was under extreme distress--he probably knew that his wife did not have much of a chance to survive.  So his questioning you should not have been taken so personally--he needed to know what kind of clinic you have, the costs, the results, the data, etc.  Please do not fault him or others for wanting to glean more information about potential treatments or costs.  There are many clinics out there--and patients cannot afford to test them all out.  Serious decisions have to be made.  The more you can accommodate valid questions from potential patients, the more confidence they will have in you.

As for the cost of 3-BP--well, we all know that it is a relatively inexpensive substance.  Drs. Ko and Pedersen's intent was to be able to make this available to a multitude of cancer patients at a reasonable cost to them.  We all know that most cancer patients can no longer work because of their accompanying disabilities.  Funds begin to seriously shrink with continued care--sometimes funds have been spent fruitlessly in the past--and we become wary and need facts validated. 

So, if you were in our position, and had a loved one that needed care--and your salary for 2014 was not quite $60,000--well, imagine how stressed you would be trying to pay for care to keep your family alive?  Probably all of your year's salary could be gone in one fell swoop.  Who will feed your family--who will pay the rent/mortgage--how will your children's needs be met--well, the list goes on and on.

I did not make up the facts about approximate costs of being $10,000 per week.  I had been told by someone else that you had offered a 3-week cost of almost $30,000--that is why I averaged that way.  I am not in the habit of lying in any way, shape, or form.  Perhaps there was a misunderstanding about those fees?  In any event, even $28,000 for 4 weeks would average $7,000 per  a 5-day week--that is a lot for the average family today.

No one is trying to discourage you from adding to this discussion regarding facts and details--they are much appreciated.  And most, I am sure, are glad that you are offering 3-BP at your clinic.  But you must realize that we are trying to stay alive--money is a huge component in our being able to go to a clinic such as yours. And, unfortunately, there are definitely some of us who will never be able to pay the subsequent costs of such treatment. That can be very frustrating indeed.

Nevertheless, it would behoove you to recognize that your sharing of facts and details may help in this discussion.  Apparently most of us are very impressed with 3-BP or we would not be on this message thread.'

So, just a suggestion--it may be a good idea to take a step back, think about how your ideas and suggestions could potentially help others despite their not being able to afford your clinic--and then reassess whether or not you would like to continue on this thread.  No one wants you dismissed--we just want you to recognize that not all can afford clinic prices.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by ipappas on Sat Apr 18, 2015 04:51 PM

Quote | Reply

First to Zhaosr, my deepest sympathy and condoleances for the loss of your wife.

To Dr. Dickens, I personally appreciate your contributions to this list and wish you would continue to share good or bad experiences with 3BP, like the pancreatic cancer you mentioned. Each new case-report helps us figure out this puzzle. I am sure many would highly appreciate more details and more cases reports. Thanks in advance.   

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Apr 18, 2015 05:03 PM

Quote | Reply

Same here: I personally appreciate you contribution Dr. Dickens  and hope you will continue to post here.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Sat Apr 18, 2015 05:25 PM

Quote | Reply

Dr Dickens, I agree that your contributions are welcome. I also agree with jetsparkle that you could be more sensitive.

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Apr 18, 2015 05:32 PM

Quote | Reply

Ok, clear! Than lets go back to science. :)

Any reaction on my question related to telomerase?

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Genelle on Sat Apr 18, 2015 05:40 PM

Quote | Reply

On Apr 17, 2015 9:00 PM Danielus wrote:

An interesting subject relevant for cancer treatment is telomerase. In cancer, this is known to be upregulated and protect the cancer cells by inhibiting the naturall erosion of telomers which would otherwise lead to natural death of fast replicating cells. Therfore telomerase inhibitors are interesting anti-cancer elements. Berberine seems to have a telomerase inhibitor role as well. 

Yet, the most interesting and accessible telomerase inhibitor seems to be procaine: http://www.newswire.com/procaine-turns-off-telomerase-and/12 3670"" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newswire.com/procaine-turns-off-telomerase-and/12 target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newswire.com/procaine-turns-off-telomerase-and/12

But othes say it is a telomerase activator instead (i.e. an anti-aging element): http://www.newswire.com/the-procaine-pump-and-the-cells/7191 7"" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newswire.com/the-procaine-pump-and-the-cells/7191 target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.newswire.com/the-procaine-pump-and-the-cells/7191

What do you think? Is an inhibitor or an activator?

Would it not affect the normal cells as well and shorten their life?

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?

by Danielus on Sat Apr 18, 2015 09:54 PM

Quote | Reply

In literature I havent found anybody to be concern with the inhibition aspect since telomerase is overactive in cancer cells. But if it is an activator, there is a concer that the anti-aging effect may apply to the cancer cells as well...

My question remains open: is procaine an activator or inhibitor of telomerase?

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