The ketogenic diet and cancer

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RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by jackstew on Thu Nov 02, 2017 04:00 PM

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John,

I ordered the single packet $46.00 Bravo yogurt.  There is a healthy food store near me called Detweillers that sells raw milk and am planning to get some to use in making the yogurt.

You may have heard about this but a seven part documentary series starts tonight from Ty Bollinger.  Go to http://www.thesacredplant.com/docuseries to register.

Jack

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by jackstew on Fri Nov 03, 2017 03:25 AM

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John,

My bravo yogurt shipped today.  Also, received Fat for Fuel and am starting to read it.  I bought Ketone urine test strips to check my ketosis progress but I see Mercola advocates a much more difficult and involved process.  I'd like to keep using the ketone strips...only so many hours in the day!

Jack

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by chalmj on Fri Nov 03, 2017 03:28 PM

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Jack,

Yes I am on Ty Bolingers mailing list so I hear about all his series, the truth about cancer, recently pet cancer series, etc. I do have the links to this new sacared plant series.

The first book I read after my diagnosis was his book - Cancer - Step outside the box- so I have been following him for sometime now.

You probably know this - you can make Bravo yogurt batches from previous batches to keep it going. I do about 4 batches for each batch received. Raw milk is best.

John

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by chalmj on Fri Nov 03, 2017 03:37 PM

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Jack,

I hear you on the blood measurement being a pain. I bought blood glucose testers and strips and then didn't use them for a year. But when I strated using the ketogenic diet as a cancer protocol so many doctors talking about how to implement this on you tube were adament that blood measurement was required so I got the recommended precision xtra and also novamax for keytone and blood glucose measurement and started pricking my finger.

As you move into ketosis urine measurements may not be accurate anymore I have read. The breath measurement is recommended by Mercola in the book but the blood measurement is most accurate.

John

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by skopro on Wed Jun 20, 2018 02:05 AM

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On Jun 14, 2017 4:26 PM chalmj wrote:

Stefanos,

I read to avoid sugar a few months after diagnosis. Knowing this I still failed for years to get my blood glucose down. In my experience the only way to achieve the goal is to do this with science through cronometer striving to achieve the macronutrient targets established for cancer patients and verify results by blood glucose measurement.

Don't let supplements get in the way. At one time I was drinking 60 grams/day of liposomal vitamin c with no correlation to eating. Skip the BMI measurement, it is not critical to the goal. Let cronomter estimate it based on your height and weight. That is all I have done. The key for cronometer is to track how many carbs your eating. 

Calorie restriction on a ketogenic diet should be avoided. Carbs are low, protein moderate and fat is high for total calorie intake. It is a high fat diet. You should not skip breakfast but rather eat something high in fat. I do this with butter, or coconut oil or MCT oil in my moring tea. When you eat a high fat breakfast this will fill you up until dinner. If you skip it you will end up wanting to eat lunch.

The key thing to remember is that cancer cannot use fat for fuel - like the book title.

 It makes me so happy to hear you are resisting chemo/rad. Welcome to the club of I guess just the two of us. But you can't fool around. I'm now 4.5 years into this and my tumor grew extensively at various times. While it spread I never felt a thing. Can you see your tumor? I never experienced a wind depth issue. 

Are you sure it's the cancer that slowed you down? I have extensive HNSCC cancer now all over my left side oral cavity, yet I have boundless enegry.

If you research the ketogenic diet you will be amazed at the health benifit claims such as anti-inflammatory, anti-aging, clears brain fog, increased energy and much more. I'm here to verify that these claims are true. I would recommend this diet to anyone, not just cancer patients, as a truely worthwhile epigenetic experience.  

If you take this path I am on, I have learned you must control/ lower blood glucose and verify it with measurement.

John

john--

a lateral message to follow my halloo earlier today:  i'm troubled by how many people are mentioning 21st century onco, an outfit that has paid millions in fines for fraud, cross-Rx-ing, etc...just google them in FL (my winter territory.

My onco there wld do nothing but Rx chemo/rads, which I still hv refused...and a year later I don't FEEL much worse off than I was then.  don't hv a clue what my immune system is doing but i hv lost two friends now in the past year to chemo & brutal radiation for vthewir cANCERs.  concerned to hear how they bombarded your oral cavity...i'm beginning to think this stuff is barbaric besides being enormously profitable.

BTW, I qualified for checkpoint therapy since my tumor was "expressing" 85%+ of requisite gene target but I pored over data that showed time bought by a "successful," costly treatment wasn't that impressive.  I think I hv earned the rep of a "bad" patient, so my docs leave me alone now & just "recommend" this or that.

I may be an arrogant prick but I don't think I'll eventually beat this thing.  Tried oxcycodone for shldr pain, 1/2 pill for a week & then whole pill for 2 night but result no better, so I stopped.  Maybe hospice & moprhine will eventually bring better results  (sarc/!?!

Regards, let me know how you are.

Stefanos

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by DragonBoater on Wed Nov 28, 2018 04:45 AM

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I've been diagnosed with Stage 4 GEJ cancer.  The PET scan showed a huge glowing mass in my stomach and esophagus and two unmistakable glowing spots in my liver.  I start FOLFOX+Hereceptin chemotherapy in 10 days.  The Hereceptin is supposed to improve median life expectancy from about 11 months to 13 months according to research noted at hereceptin.com .

While moving slowly through my HMO's staging test process I started wondering what I could do with my diet to potentially improve my condition.  I found an interesting scientific article:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221323171

In some testing on mice, it seems, the growth rates of a couple types of cancer were cut in half.  As the article explains, early stage trials are now being done to see if a ketogenic diet helps as an adjuvant therapy.

The logic of the diet made sense to me so I went to Costco and bought a bunch of the foods with lots of calories from fat, few from protein and as few carbs as possible.  I also started jogging again, hoping to limit glucose to the little buggers in my system and slow their progress in killing me.

After three days of eating as much fat as I can stomach and avoiding carbs, the area of my cancer feels much better, so I'm guessing significantly less inflamed.  I'm sure the cancer is still growing, but probably at a reduced rate, based on the results with mice.

I asked my medical oncologist about a ketogenic diet yesterday and she had no clue.  She didn't object to me trying it though, and for now I'm planning on continuing it through chemo as my own little adjuvant therapy experiment.  The food I found at Costco is pretty yummy, too.

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by chalmj on Thu Nov 29, 2018 06:35 AM

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Hello DragonBoater,

I checked out the linked article. I have read so much about the effectiveness of the diet in helping cancer patients. For the longest time I thought the key benefit came mainly from starving cancer cells. Now I believe it is all about reversing chronic lactic acidosis.

Dr. Daren Schmidt has several videos on you tube where he indicates chronic sugar burning, the mode most of us are in, leads to chronic lactic acidosis.

Lactose is one of the major acidic byproducts of glucose burning. It is this constant glucose burning over years that leads to chronic lactic acidosis which lowers blood PH over time which degrades the bloods ability to carry oxygen which leads to the Warburg effect where cancer cells switch to glycolysis to survive in low oxygen environments. Lactic acidosis gets worse with cancer as cancer cell glycolysis and cachexia put out even more lactic acid into the blood. 

 

Chronically burning glucose in normal cells is not the normal way for human metabolism. If we accept for millions of years we were hunter gatherers there must have been times where food was scarce and we would have to fast. Fasting puts humans into ketosis, fat burning mode. Today we never fast so we never get into fat burning mode. 

 

Actually today the problem is worse because of the man made foods that were never around during evolution like these dense carbohydrate nutrient deficient wheat powders or refined sugars. So many dense carbohydrate foods available now that lock us into glucose metabolism. Humans are carbohydrate intolerant demonstrated by the glycemic index.

 

I have read when we are young our mitochondria have metabolic flexibility to burn either fat or glucose. If we stay in either mode for too long our bodies forget (through epigenetics) the other mode. We need to cycle into and out of ketosis just like we did in evolution to keep our metabolic flexibility and keep our mitochondria young which keeps us young. 

 

I did the ketogenic diet for 1.5 years. I felt 10 years younger. Thought this is it - ketosis. Then it turned out my fasting glucose started to rise. I learned it is just as bad to stay in ketosis constantly as it is to stay in glucose burning mode constantly.

 

I have learned through experience that fats are healthy for humans including saturated fats like grass fed butter and coconut oil. PUFA's , especially these harmful vegetable oils/ seed oils that must be highly processed and are hydrogenated are seen in so many processed foods, are to be avoided. 

 

Implementing a ketognic diet is not trival. It requires effort. A macronutrient tracker and blood glucose and keytone measurement. The book I would recommend on a keto diet how to is Dr. Mercolas new book Fat for Fuel. 

If you do implement the diet successfully you will be on a great adventure - possibly one of the most exciting adventures in your life - to experience the benifefits and be amazed at how much better/ younger you will feel. As you say - it is probably the most effective way at reducing inflammation because burning glucose, chronic lactic acidosis contributes to inflammation.

John

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by DragonBoater on Thu Nov 29, 2018 02:54 PM

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Thanks a million, John.

The Dr. Darren Schmidt videos I've seen so far are great, and I'll keep watching more.

As I wait another week for my chemo to start, I'm trying to deny the cancer cells the sugar they need to do their thing. 

I lost about 18 pounds from the cancer and loss of appetite, and I got to the point where my low weight could soon be a health concern.  I turned that around by forcing myself to eat a lot of snacks and got my energy back enough to start jogging again, but with exercise and a keto diet I've started losing weight again.

When I'm on chemo I may go vegan and accept more calories from legumes and such.  Dr. Schmidt indicates that either keto or vegan can avoid the lactic acidosis issues.  

I'm still trying to figure out how diet will interact with FOLFOX+Heraceptin regimen.  Based on the way some of the drugs appear to work I may want to give the cancer cells just enough sugar so that they can self-destruct.

Rodger

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by chalmj on Thu Nov 29, 2018 06:15 PM

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Rodger,

Keto means low carb while vegan usually means high or at least moderate carb as most vegetables also have carbs. Dr. Schmidt talks about Gerson, juicing as another way to upset chronic lactic acidosis but it is not a vegan approach. Basically, the juicing therapy raises blood PH. I don't know for sure about blood PH but in reference to what I did measure which was urine PH I can testify through experience Gerson raises urine PH. 

For approaxiamately one full year I was juicing, carrots, red cabbage, oranges and green apples - cases of them from the farmers market, juicing every day, very labor intensive, had to have help so much work. It was working. My tumor was shrinking based on visual inspection as my tumor is visible in the oral cavity. Through experience I can tell you the Gerson therapy works. 

I was measuring my PH in my waking AM every day for years but it was always acidic and I could not pull my urine PH up until I started juicing. Tried so many things - minerals from PHion site and supplementing baking soda but nothing worked - waking PH was always low. The Gerson therapy is effective because it seems to be the only way to raise PH to upset the lactic acidosis cycle. I can say this through experience. My waking PH came up but it really came up during the day while I was juicing. The cancer cells are 24/7 acidifying blood but you can't drink juices 24/7. 

When I saw Dr. Schmidts video - this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uehft13Nl2g&t=9s

a light went off in my head and I realized this was the cause and cure for many chronic diseases including cancer. All the puzzel parts fit - chronic glucose burning in normal cells can lead to chronic lactic acidosis and ketosis or Gerson are effective at interupting the cycle.  

You may say - why did you stop Gerson. After reading Dr. Seyfrieds book - Cancer as a Metabolic Disease - check out the reviews on this book on Amazon - most are from oncologists who agree with his position that caner is not a genetic disease as the conventional medical world would have you believe - I decided 28g of carbs each drink for 13 glasses a day was just too many carbs so I stopped Gerson and started a ketogenic diet. 

I have the experience to say that Gerson and ketosis are both effective at reversing lactic acidosis. Still - that may not be a cure - just an adjunctive therapy to something like immunotherapy. Once cancer gets started reversing lactic acidosis may not be a cure. 

I should mention I am currently on Keytruda and it seems to be working for me. My first 3 month MRI showed lymph node shrinkage but no tumor shrinkage. Next 6 month MRI is due in January. 

Currently my excitement is all about exosomes. Turns out cancer cells send out these exosome nano particles that have the ability to suppress the immune system systemically allowing cancer to evade detection. Check out this article:

https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/cancer-cells-send-out-drone

John

RE: The ketogenic diet and cancer

by bvburrows on Mon Jul 15, 2019 01:15 PM

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This is so true.  I started out with the Adkins diet in the late 80's (I was 18) then went into what they called VLC (very low carb), then ketosis came into style.  I thought carbs = death.  But over the years I became less vibrant and then started going down hill.  I only came out of ketosis in the last year (once I found out I have stage 4 cancer).  After looking into this I have learned that keto should be cycled.  We should be in keto over the late fall/winter and stop in the late spring/summer if you are healthy.  Otherwise if ill or have cancer the cycling needs to be a little more strict.

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