darrylb's Message Board Messages

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Hi Guyfergy

I haven't been to this forum for some time and noticed you had a question about who removed my surgical clip.

The only way to see whether there is a clip or not causing you a problem is wuth ultrasound or a cystoscopy.

My Dr that removed one of the clips is Dr Peter Swindle in Brisbane AUSTRALIA.

I don't know where you live, but I am sure there is many bloke out there now with the same problem...

Hope this helps

Well the jury is in!!

If you are being told about how good robotic surgery is for prostate cancer - think again!

After a long trial in AUS we finally have a well documented outcome that basically says robotic surgery is no better than open surgery.

The two surgeons one who only does robotic surgery would have done about 6 - 8000 or so robotic surgeries by now and is young. He would be about the best robotic surgery in Aus.
The second surgeon does brachytherapy and open surgery and also dabbles in robotic surgery..... now here's the thing, an extremely experienced robotic surgeon who cannot out perform and average open surgery Surgeon??.  makes you wonder why a man with a specially designed tool cannot do better than a man with standard tools? The open surgery guys peaks at about 200 and the robotic surgery guy is still in the learning curve at figures up to 1000!!  You have to feel sorry for the learning curve robotic patients !!  I was 186 for my fossilized old goat!
That just about says it all!!
My issues post my disastrous robotic surgery in 2010 were:
  1. Damaged urethra from poor catheterisation technique -resolved
  2. Torn right hip ligaments -resolved

  3. Pudendal nerve damage -resolved

  4. urinary tract, bladder and kidney infection -resolved

  5. incisional hernia -repaired

  6. nerve entrapment from hernia repaired – not resolved and permanent

  7. Diastasis recti – not resolved and permanent

  8. Right hand stomach wall muscle atrophy, possible effect from a very large hernia repair – not resolved, seems permanent

  9. surgical clip migration next to the left uteric jet –removed

  10. Surgical clip migration in the trigone area – not resolved

  11. Surgical clip migration through the bowel wall – resolved(excreted)

  12. Urge and stress incontinence – permanent

  13. Impotence – shim score 8/25

  14. Prostate cancer recurrence – not resolved and will be fatal

Hope this helps the undecided!!


Hi Darryl

Unfortunatly you have been diagnosed twenty yrs too early.  In time i am sure we will just have to take a pill and it will be all over.

I have had a robotic prostatectomy in 2010 and I had a gleason 6 cancer, I was 54 at the time.  I was promised I would be back at work in two weeks, erections would work just fine and I would be continent in about 3 months... to date I have lost well over 4 months off work, spent $40,000 plus (AUS) out of pocket expenses and have had to have 3 additional operations to fix the results of the robotic surgery. and now I have advanced cancer! AND I have lost my QOL with regard to continence and ED.

I found out too late that robotic surgery does not produce the results of open surgery and there is a growing trend away from it. Apparently it has a poorer cancer clearance result than open surgery as well. I understand manipulation (robotic pliers etc with no tactile feedback) may be contributing to higher failure rates.

There is no way I would recommend robotic surgery. I contacted Bert Vorstman in the US and he stated my results are quite common for robotic surgery.  He stated that it's not if you get complications but what comlications you end up with. As you would expect I attend support groups to help me understand what is happening and I find out I am not alone and that other men have very similar stories.  It seems the xtreme angles your body is placed in and abdominal access with trocars cause all sorts of problems ranging from heart attack, puntured bowels from the verus needle to adominal adhesions. Apparently adhesions happen whenever the stomach wall is punctured and occurs in about 97% of stomach wounds. The adhesions range from tissue paper types to strong fibrous bands that can choke your bowels... great isn't it? I ended up with a permanent diastasis recti (abdominal wall muscle stretched by too much gas pressure) and huge incisional hernia above my naval and now have a 6 inch X 8 inch mesh inside me, this has left my right side stomach muscle with atrophy as well. torn hip ligaments, pudendal nerve damage, surgical clip migration into my bladder in two spots and one clip migrated through my bowel ad was excreted. And I find out that this is also normal... no body told me about these little gems.  I understand a robotic surgeon has to have done about two hundred surgeries in a short period to produce a results of a standard open surgery doctor.  I was my doctors 186th patient!

Bert Vorstman wrote an article you may be interested in http://www.urologyweb.com/robotic-prostatectomy-complication

I don't know a lot about radiation except it will give you ED and what symptoms you get within the treatment period will come back about 3 yrs later as a permanent feature. I understand bladder cancer is common about 7 yrs later as well.

My brother had Brachy therapy and for the first year his life was hell but he seems ok now.. and no ED, that was 4 yrs ago. His PSA is now .02.

I would investigate focal therapies rather than radical type treatments....

I hope I haven't scared you too much and I am sure there is good news stories out there somewhere ... i just don't know any..

If you send me a private message I can send you the questions I should have asked but didn't.

all the best


Hi ironne

I don't have any posative recommendations at all regarding robotic surgery as my experience with it is disastrous.

The only advice is if you are considering robotic surgery be very careful to select a surgeon that has done thousands, is young <50 yrs old and has a comprehensive aftercare plan including incontinence and erectile dysfunstion... you'll have both for a while... if you are lucky you will be continent before 12 months and if you are extremely lucky you'll get a chubby within 2 yrs... and that will be as good as it gets. It's a bit like dialing an old telephone with a marshmellow!

If you want I can send you the "questions I should have asked" to assist with your selection... just send a private reply.

In the meantime check out Dr Bert Vorsmans website regarding robotic surgery complications... a real eye opener!


Remember it is not if you get any complications it is what complications you end up with.

Another little gem I leaarnt more recently is robotic surgery failures may be caused by the little tools having no tactile feedback causing cancer cells to be squashed from the diseased organ?? It may explain my recurrence?

kind regards


Hi I agree with Dan ... SLOW DOWN it took a long while to get to where it is, take a little more time to make the right decision for you. If you are still convinced you want cyber knife talk to patients that have already had it and what problems they had at the time and the problems they have at 3 yrs or so after the treatment See if you can get long term success figures from other sources than the Dr that is trying to sell his "snake oil". Anything that carries modern words like robotic or cyber should be treated with suspicion. Radiation carries its own set of serious complications and when the cancer comes back it does so with a passion. Have a look at Dr Bert Vorstmans website for a comprehensive place for information that you need now. I had a robotic prostatectomy in 2010 and it was the worst mistake I have made in my life. I was told all sorts of wonderful stories about how quickly I would heal and more wonderful stories about sexual function urinary control and not to forget the superior cancer control outcomes with robotic surgery. 5 yrs on, no sex, urge and stress incontinence and recurrent cancer and a list of post surgery complications that would choke a horse and from what I understand my results are common. I now understand failure rates with robotic surgery are a lot higher than open surgery. Dan - can I ask what is the alternate treatment you are taking? Currently I am taking B17 and I am waiting for my next test to see how effective it is... Darryl
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